stuart@ihlpe.ATT.COM (S. D. Ericson) (09/16/88)
In article <4210@thorin.cs.unc.edu>, davis@clocs.cs.unc.edu (Mark Davis) writes: > Sorry for the gross cross posting, but I have no idea in which group > the germain posting originated. Note Followup-to. > > In an article (Somebody) writes: > > ... [some Sun Bashing ] > > Come on Guys. You will bash anything. But let's not bash the good > guys without reason. [Says that Suns are not too buggy, have good price/performance] > So far Sun hasn't sued anybody. (How many companies has Apple forced > to cripple their product or sued out of the business? I have lost > count.) Wrong. They just sued Custom Memory Systems - and PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS. They're just like any other company, protecting interests, but they forced the repayment of the suit so that CMS had to cease operations. > [More about not bashing a company who has reasonable business ethics] > > Thanks - Mark (davis@cs.unc.edu or decvax!mcnc!davis) > Disclaimer - I am not nor have ever been an employee of Sun > Microsystems, Incorporated. I use and recommend their products, but I use > and recommend a lot of other vendors products, too Well, I use Suns everyday at work, and while they are *much* nicer than terminals, the user interface is not as nice as the Mac. In our work we may need to use the Unix(r) operating system on the Suns, but if it were my choice, it would be a Mac instead. Many people seem to think that all machines with windows and a mouse are pretty much the same. WRONG - Only the Mac has the *Uniform Interface*, and only the mac puts priority on the user. When I ask for something on the Mac, I get a response visually - the menus are instantaneous, programs and long operations signal their activities by opening windows, putting up status bars, watch cursors, etc. On the sun, I may have to wait 5-10 seconds some times for a menu to pop up! After choosing a new shell window, NOTHING HAPPENS IMMEDIATELY. Often I think the machine lost my command and re-issue it, only to find a whole slew of these windows popping up on my screen. I find it VERY disconcerting that the machine can't at least give an indication of menu acceptance (after all, sometimes the commands fail - I don't just want to wait around). Sun should put more effort into their user interface. After all, the Mac, with a 68000, give much quicker User Interface response than my Sun 3/110 with a 68020. Not to mention, of course, that the software selections for a sun aren't as diverse and wonderful as the Mac. The mac stuff simply has a better interface. Phew! Been wanting to say that for a long time. Note: Apple, Sun, Mac, 68000, 68020 are probably all trademarks and should be accorded their due respect. Unix (R) is a registered trademark of AT&T. (I had to say that! :-) Stu -- Stuart Ericson AT&T Bell Laboratories USEnet: att!ihlpe!stuart IH 2H210 ARPA: stuart@ihlpe.att.com 2000 N. Naperville Road Voice: (312) 979-4491 Naperville, Il 60566-7033
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (09/19/88)
In article <3498@ihlpe.ATT.COM>, stuart@ihlpe.ATT.COM (S. D. Ericson) writes: > Many people seem to think that all machines with windows and a mouse > are pretty much the same. WRONG - Only the Mac has the *Uniform > Interface*, and only the mac puts priority on the user. Not true. Any real-time or dedicated micro can say the same thing (Amiga, IBM-PC running Windows or Gem, Atari-ST running Gem (to a lesser extent), and so on), and so can many larger minis or micros (Xerox 1100/Star). > When I > ask for something on the Mac, I get a response visually - the > menus are instantaneous, programs and long operations signal their > activities by opening windows, putting up status bars, watch cursors, > etc. On the other hand, you can't open a Mac window on another machine in another building, as you can with Xwindows. You can't effectively run background jobs on the Mac, as you can with Sun or the Amiga. You can't run conventional software on the Mac without giving up the windowing environment, as you can with Sun and the Amiga... the Mac programming environment is horrible. As a user environment, if they'd just give up on trying for 100% compatibility and soak up the cost of having a few programs break, and go to a conventional preemptive multitasking environment, they'd be great. They're still the best machine around foir novice users (though some of the other machines up there are giving them a run for their money). > Phew! Been wanting to say that for a long time. I'm sure. Just don't generalise too far... there are more alternatives than just Mac, Sun, and IBM-PC with MS-DOG. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' Ferranti International Controls Corporation. "Have you hugged U your wolf today?" peter@ficc.uu.net
jps@wucs1.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz) (09/19/88)
In article <3498@ihlpe.ATT.COM> stuart@ihlpe.ATT.COM (S. D. Ericson) writes: >On the sun, I may have to wait 5-10 seconds some times for a >menu to pop up! After choosing a new shell window, NOTHING HAPPENS >IMMEDIATELY. Often I think the machine lost my command and >re-issue it, only to find a whole slew of these windows popping >up on my screen. I find it VERY disconcerting that the machine >can't at least give an indication of menu acceptance (after all, >sometimes the commands fail - I don't just want to wait around). Sun seems to have a serious problem with their scheduling algorithm. The problem gets even worse with CPU intensive background tasks. Simulations running (nice'd) on our uVAX II have little to no effect on windowing (X rather than SUNtools). Just one simulation on our SUN 3 horribly degrades SUNtools performance. Either the scheduler stinks, or SUNtools are horribly inefficient. Observing the decisions to swap, etc., I suspect the former. BTW, what do people think of the SUN mechanically? When we got ours, I was suprised at how cheap the keyboard felt, kind of like on a PCjr. When we had a monitor go out, we paid $600, and got a recon back, that had obvious, and poorly done repaint to scratches in the on one side. Second replacement monitor not much better. Third monitor replacement not great, but we're sick of returning it. -- James Sterbenz Computer and Communications Research Center Washington University in St. Louis 314-726-4203 INTERNET: jps@wucs1.wustl.edu UUCP: wucs1!jps@uunet.uu.net