crunch@well.UUCP (John Draper) (12/16/88)
I have a Soviet frind named Dima who has prepared a list of questions
that I'm sure almost anyone might be able to answer. This is the first
list of questions from the Soviet Union that I am passing on for anyone
to answer.
Remember, these people don't know English Fluently, so keep your
terms as simple as possible, and refrain from some of the colorful
metaphores often used on the Nets. Translators are available and
usually they get payed in bottles of Vodka.
One other thing to consider, is that these people are very
inexperienced in telecommunications, and are just now getting started
building a Publis access Computer network using Xenix on IBM-PC's.
I recommended they start out using Fidonet software, and they
are considering it. I have posted the first batch of questions a few
days ago, and I've gotten word today that the question list went to
the translators. They are currently translating them to Russian.
Not many translators are available right now, as they are all down
in Armenia dealing with the disaster.
The Soviets are now starting from the ground up to build a number
of Computer hosts to act like the WELL, Portal, BIX, etc. They
really want to eventually UUCP to the USA through the Teleport. UNIX
machines are practically non-existant, and I'm asking everyone here
in Net land to help us get them started so they can get on-line to
communicate with us.
They cannot pay for the equipment in Rubles, because it's non-
convertable currency, so other arrangements for payment of the equipment
would have to be arranged.
They have a LOT of programming talant, and can probably pay in
programming services, or at least pay for someone to visit Moscow and
help them get an on-line system started.
They are working closly with the SF/Moscow teleport (See previous
posting in "comp.misc"). So, here are the questions, and you can
email the answers to be at the following net addresses.
Remember, if we get the Soviets on-line, it is obvious that
better understanding would result between us, and it would definitely
result in better relations.
UNIX machines are non-existant and un-available to the general Soviet
people. I suspect that their Military Komplex (mis-spelling intentional
:-) would have them, but the ordinary people have NEVER seen, or
used UNIX. They are starting from scratch. So lets help them get
on-line, and perhaps eventually on UseNet through the Teleport.
So, if anyone out there who is knowledgeable in setting up UNIX
sites and wants a free trip to the USSR to help them get set up,
Do we have any volunteers??
For those MINIX users, is it possible to send the Soviets a copy
of MINIX?? How does one feel about that, Any comments??
Here are Dima's questions:
1.So we need information about any software which makes it possible to
create UNIXlike networks under MSDOS.
2.We've just arranged Xenix ver.2.0 for PC AT.What can we do to try
Telecommunications on it?
3.How is it possible to install 4 modems in one computer?Using Com 1,2,3,4?
What multiplex board do we need(specification)?
4. Please send us a technical documentation for FidoNet and UUCP with
possibilities of this software and hardware support. Prices?
We can use IBM PC/AT/XT, so have you any examples of usage this computers
for such net which you describe in last message?
< This last question sounds a little funny, probably his difficulty
in English >
So, if any of you people in Net land want to help these people out,
this is the first batch of questions they are sending to US.
In relation to the LAST batch of questions we sent to them a few days
ago, they are still working on them. I suspect that I would get
the answers in a few days, depending on the availability of translators,
which costs them money (or Vodka).
More later.... Stay tuned.
John Draper
Programmers Network
uunet!acad!well!crunchdebra@alice.UUCP (Paul De Bra) (12/17/88)
In article <10031@well.UUCP> crunch@well.UUCP (John Draper) writes: > > > I have a Soviet frind named Dima who has prepared a list of questions >that I'm sure almost anyone might be able to answer. This is the first >list of questions from the Soviet Union that I am passing on for anyone >to answer. >... >Here are Dima's questions: > >1.So we need information about any software which makes it possible to >create UNIXlike networks under MSDOS. The "MKS" toolkit provides most Unix commands for use with MS-DOG. PC-NFS allows MS-DOS machines to share files with Unix-systems that support NFS using Ethernet. >2.We've just arranged Xenix ver.2.0 for PC AT.What can we do to try >Telecommunications on it? Read the information on uucp in the manuals (assuming you got them). >3.How is it possible to install 4 modems in one computer?Using Com 1,2,3,4? >What multiplex board do we need(specification)? Get SCO Xenix 2.3 if you want to use com 1-4. It won't work on old versions. But SCO provides a list of multiplex boards that do work (using only one com-interrupt) in there release notes and in their "directory". >4. Please send us a technical documentation for FidoNet and UUCP with >possibilities of this software and hardware support. Prices? Don't know about FidoNet, but all necessary info on UUCP should be in the manuals. But it's all in English of course :-) >We can use IBM PC/AT/XT, so have you any examples of usage this computers >for such net which you describe in last message? SCO Xenix provides a simple mail network between Xenix systems. It is called "micnet". Communicating with the USSR (and other communist countries) may be somewhat difficult because of the danger of "sensitive" information being send to countries that are not supposed to have access to that information. As far as I know Usenet does not officially have a status of a mail carrier like the post office. If you send a letter with classified information to the USSR the post office cannot be held responsible, but if you post a message in a Usenet newsgroup that is broadcast to the USSR (assuming we would get Usenet news readers in the USSR) it is feasible that Usenet can be held responsible. Paul. -- ------------------------------------------------------ |debra@research.att.com | uunet!research!debra | ------------------------------------------------------
hall@nosc.NOSC.MIL (Robert R. Hall) (12/17/88)
Let's see. You state your case as: Soviets don't have any computers with which to gain experience and they are seeking techenical help with the list of questions but then they wish to repay me back with products of their programing skills. No thanks, I rather do it myself. ;-) Sorry but this is comming across as a high school kid's version of a prank.
chasm@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Charles Marslett) (12/18/88)
In article <8550@alice.UUCP>, debra@alice.UUCP (Paul De Bra) writes: > Communicating with the USSR (and other communist countries) may be somewhat > difficult because of the danger of "sensitive" information being send to > countries that are not supposed to have access to that information. > > As far as I know Usenet does not officially have a status of a mail carrier > like the post office. If you send a letter with classified information to > the USSR the post office cannot be held responsible, but if you post a message > in a Usenet newsgroup that is broadcast to the USSR (assuming we would get > Usenet news readers in the USSR) it is feasible that Usenet can be held > responsible. The last time I had a security clearance (several years ago) the real limits of distribution of any kind of sensitive information fell into three categories: the US and nowhere else, NATO countries, and the rest of the world. Actually there was a fourth category: North Korea, North Vietman, Cuba and perhaps East Germany(?) -- anyway, it did not include either China or the Soviet Union. What that means, as far as the net's liability, is that anything that gets to Switzerland (or Sweden, India or Australia) is just as much a liability as if it were sent directly to Moscow). That is in reference to legal liability -- if the message were addressed to vlad!kgbvax!kremlin!moscva!ussr then you may have reason to suspect the sender of spying and have a moral (or patriotic) reason for intercepting the message, but in a society not run by the KGB or the CIA, I cannot see how you could be legally liable for that any more than for sending it to imaspy!ihnp4. > > Paul. > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > |debra@research.att.com | uunet!research!debra | > ------------------------------------------------------ Charles Marslett chasm@killer.dallas.tx.us (excuse me if these addresses really refer to real persons or organizations that are not engaged in active spying ;^).
smd@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Dahmen Steve) (12/19/88)
In article <846@nosc.NOSC.MIL>, hall@nosc.NOSC.MIL (Robert R. Hall) writes: > > Let's see. You state your case as: Soviets don't have any computers > with which to gain experience and they are seeking techenical > help with the list of questions but then they wish to repay me > back with products of their programing skills. No thanks, I rather > do it myself. ;-) > > Sorry but this is comming across as a high school kid's version > of a prank. The real point of this is not to see whether the Soviets or the Americans come out ahead financially (though i am sure some planning to reap some $s) but this link is not unlike the Soyuz/Skylab space mission, it is a historic link which will increase the understanding between the two countries. Lack of communication between two parties is almost always the cause of conflict, and any attempt to reach out and communicate is laudable. As for the offer of their programming skills -- again, its a token offering, perhaps the best they can do right now considering economic and political conditions in the Soviet Union right now. Our token offering will be the sending of a US UNIX or USEnet emissary to the USSR to help establish a link. If I had the knowledge, id jump on the chance tomorrow! Resembles a sort of electronic mail thanksgiving, no? Being a member of our fine military forces, perhaps you are simply not too thrilled with the idea of free communication with our Soviet Brothers and Sisters, for it means letting go of the rigid "Holding On to What We Got and Dont let THEM get it" attitude which has kept our planet in the Dark Ages of conflict long enough. I won't send them a list of our missile sites, but to exchange thoughts and share ideas non-political (or should i say non-military/defense) would be a welcome opportunity that I know many here have been waiting for. Remember that we are not communicating here with Stalin, Marx, and Lenin, but rather with *human beings*, many of whom have girlfriends, boyfriends, wives, husbands, children, economic stress, etc. They go shopping and cook potatoes. Again, I laud John D. on investing his own time and resources to establish another vital communications path in the name of global communications and understanding. PS. Maybe while you do your programming, you might want to have one of our Soviet friends to your typing for you :-). =================================================================== Steve Dahmen att.ATT.COM!lcuxlm!smd "Love The Planet, Love Yourself!" 201-580-5687 (W) * :-) * :-) * :-) * :-( * :-( * :-( * :-( * :-( * :-( * :-( * :-( *
geoff@lloyd.camex.uucp (Geoffrey Knauth) (12/19/88)
I saw a reasonable introduction to Unix telecommunications in the Harvard Coop recently. It was called something like "Using uucp and Usenet," and had a fair number of examples. If your Soviet programmers send me a copy of their most authoritative book on training methods for elite rowing (tekhnicheskaja kniga po metodam trenirovki v sfere akademicheskoj grebli), so that we rowers in Boston can study it, I'd be more than happy to spring for the book on uucp. By the way, if you get any messages in Russian, I can translate them into English for you. I once worked in Moscow as an interpreter. I don't want any involvement with the KGB or GRU, though! -- Geoffrey S. Knauth ARPA: geoff%lloyd@hcsfvax.harvard.edu Camex, Inc. UUCP: geoff@lloyd.uucp or hcsfvax!lloyd!geoff 75 Kneeland St., Boston, MA 02111 Tel: (617)426-3577 Fax: 426-9285 I do not speak for Camex.
dave@well.UUCP (Dave Hughes) (12/19/88)
In article <846@nosc.NOSC.MIL>, hall@nosc.NOSC.MIL (Robert R. Hall) writes: > > Let's see. You state your case as: Soviets don't have any computers > with which to gain experience and they are seeking techenical > help with the list of questions but then they wish to repay me > back with products of their programing skills. No thanks, I rather > do it myself. ;-) > > Sorry but this is comming across as a high school kid's version > of a prank. And you are serious? One simple fact is that, unless it is a pretty high level deal, they don't have dollars or gold to pay for foreign products. And western banks won't accept rubles. But under the current regime, its ok for lesser Soviet porjects to pay in anything - services, commodities - that their trading partners will accept. Unrelated to this request, I have recieved an offer via Novosti news agency, Moscow, via Twics in Tokyo for 'joint ventures' between US and USSR business entities. Also, as they have attempted to sell US publications a form of interactive news services (via telecom) they made it clear they would accept payment in PCs. I understand 386's are still prohibited export to them, but not 286's. And apparently they have discovered SCO Xenix! Now won't it be a gas when this newsgroup starts getting cries for getty help in Cyrillic?
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (12/19/88)
Having played (compulsively) with a PD variant of the one peice of Soviet software I'm aware of, the game "Tetris", I'd say they're quite competant given the limitations of their equipment. -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation. Work: uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter, peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180. Home: bigtex!texbell!sugar!peter, peter@sugar.uu.net.
rmarks@KSP.Unisys.COM (Richard Marks) (12/20/88)
Remember the Soviets do NOT honor U.S. (or anyone else's) copywrite laws. So they will pirate SCO Xenix at the institutional level. I say no help unless we can be sure that SCO, ATT, et al are protected. Richard Marks rmarks@KSP.unisys.COM (I speak for myself, not my employer)
dlawyer@balboa.eng.uci.edu (David Lawyer) (01/02/89)
In article <661@bbking.KSP.Unisys.COM> rmarks@KSP.Unisys.COM (Richard Marks) writes: >Remember the Soviets do NOT honor U.S. (or anyone else's) copywrite laws. >So they will pirate SCO Xenix at the institutional level. I say no help >unless we can be sure that SCO, ATT, et al are protected. >Richard Marks I recall reading many years ago that the USSR does honor foreign copywrites, but this was with respect to books. As far as preventing persons in the USSR from getting SCO and ATT software goes, there is no way to stop it since this software is available to anyone in stores or by mail. There are lots of visitors from the USSR in the U.S. including embassy UN personnel as well as tourists and I would expect that much of our software has already been obtained by them.
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (01/02/89)
In article <661@bbking.KSP.Unisys.COM> rmarks@KSP.Unisys.COM (Richard Marks) writes: >Remember the Soviets do NOT honor U.S. (or anyone else's) copywrite laws. >So they will pirate SCO Xenix at the institutional level. I say no help >unless we can be sure that SCO, ATT, et al are protected. >Richard Marks This is not the point. In this case, we have a serious problem with the basic ideas behind copy-protection! Since the Soviets could not purchase this software, (because they have no money that anyone outside of the SU would accept), they have little choice in the matter. If SCO would enter into a joint venture with the SU, they could gain the sales that potentially exist there. But, these sales are nothing more than a potential since without piracy, no one in the SU would have a copy of it to begin with. Is SCO (or AT$T for that matter), losing anything by the fact that the Soviets are using un-registered (stolen) copies? I think not. In this instance, (and possibly here _only_), we have a form of piracy that harms no one. Is this a ``BAD THING''? Food for thought. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Raisch - TechnoJunkie & UnixNut| UseNet: {uunet,mailrus}!frith!raisch Network Software Group-301 Comp.Center| InterNet: raisch@frith.egr.msu.edu Michigan State University, E. Lansing | ICBMNet: 084 28 50 W / 42 43 29 N ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The meek WILL inherit the Earth, (Some of us have other plans). -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
thomson@hub.toronto.edu (Brian Thomson) (01/02/89)
In article <1411@cps3xx.UUCP> usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) writes: >Since the Soviets could not purchase >this software, (because they have no money that anyone outside of the SU >would accept), they have little choice in the matter. I have seen several articles offering this sentiment, although it appears to be somewhat misdirected. Rubles are not a valuable international currency because the Soviet government will not allow them to leave the country, nor to be traded externally, for fear of losing control of their artificial exchange rate. Any monetary difficulties encountered by Soviets are self-inflicted, and it is unfair to lay the responsibility for this situation on Western countries, banks, companies, or individuals. -- Brian Thomson, CSRI Univ. of Toronto utcsri!uthub!thomson, thomson@hub.toronto.edu
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (01/04/89)
{Comments regarding the ``softness'' of the Russian rouble, and how
it affects the Soviet citizen's ability in purchasing Western software}
> I have seen several articles offering this sentiment, although it appears
> to be somewhat misdirected. Rubles are not a valuable international
> currency because the Soviet government will not allow them to leave the
> country, nor to be traded externally, for fear of losing control of their
> artificial exchange rate. Any monetary difficulties encountered by
> Soviets are self-inflicted, and it is unfair to lay the responsibility
> for this situation on Western countries, banks, companies, or individuals.
> --
Self-inflicted? Do you believe that every policy that your government
engages in is a *GOOD THING*? Does the United States government truely
reflect your political views? In a broader sense, does every policy of
the government of the United States represent the interests of it's people?
I am getting a little disappointed in many peoples responses here. We seem
to be quite willing to be critical of our own government, and express the
sentiment that it does not reflect our own will, and yet, when it comes
to the Soviets, all we can see is the Soviet government! The U.S.S.R. is
much more than just Mikail Gorbechev and the Politburo, (just as the USA
is MUCH more than Ronnie Raygun and the CIA!).
My comments previously were meant to address a severe problem that the
Soviet CITIZEN faces, in trying to deal with the rest of the world. Sure,
it is a problem that is caused by their governments arbitrary financial
decisions, but penalizing the Soviet people for the decisions of their
government seems a trifle short-sighted. I mean, if we disagree with our
political system, at least we have the option of changing it!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Raisch - TechnoJunkie & UnixNut| UseNet: {uunet,mailrus}!frith!raisch
Network Software Group-301 Comp.Center| InterNet: raisch@frith.egr.msu.edu
Michigan State University, E. Lansing | ICBMNet: 084 28 50 W / 42 43 29 N
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The meek WILL inherit the Earth, (Some of us have other plans).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------wyle@solaris.UUCP (Mitchell Wyle) (01/11/89)
My bank accepts rubles, as many as I want to exchange. -- -Mitchell F. Wyle wyle@ethz.uucp Institut fuer Informationsysteme wyle@inf.ethz.ch ETH Zentrum / 8092 Zurich, Switzerland +41 1 256 5237
curtc@pogo.GPID.TEK.COM (Curtis Charles) (01/14/89)
In article <502@solaris.UUCP> wyle@inf.ethz.ch writes: >My bank accepts rubles, as many as I want to exchange. >..... Zurich, Switzerland VERY INTERESTING! I thought it was a CRIME to carry rubles from the Soviet Union, which would lead to the interesting question of how one gets rubles to exchange in the first place. Further, what does the bank do with them after they're exchanged? Do the Soviets accept them from external sources? And what exchange rate does the bank use; there is no international market for rubles. ----------------- I'd rather die on K2 than I-5 ------------------------ Curt Charles | "Let our swords run red with the blood of curtc@pogo.GPID.TEK.COM | infidels..." -- Sean Connery
kiravuo@kampi.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) (01/15/89)
In article <6598@pogo.GPID.TEK.COM> curtc@pogo.GPID.TEK.COM (Curtis Charles) writes: >In article <502@solaris.UUCP> wyle@inf.ethz.ch writes: >>My bank accepts rubles, as many as I want to exchange. >>..... Zurich, Switzerland > >VERY INTERESTING! I thought it was a CRIME to carry rubles from the >Soviet Union, which would lead to the interesting question of how one >gets rubles to exchange in the first place. It is a crime according to Soviet laws, but I don't think that the Swiss feel too bad about it. I live in Finland, next to USSR (see your local map :-) and around here it is very popular to take a vacation in Leningrad, becouse of the good exchange rate we can get on the black market: about one mark to one ruble, which is about four rubles to a US$. That means a lot of cheap booze to students :-) As a currency the Soviet ruble is overvalued, becouse there is no free exchange, that is one of the problems the Soviets will have to face, if they open their economy. If you travel to the Soviet Union you have to think about weather to exchange legal or black rubles and how much. One way is to excange legal for all souveniers and stuff that you are going to take out of the country and black for anything that you are going to use in the country. But remember, if you get caught, you can be jailed for quite a long time, so I recommend you to think about what you are going to do. Also one should remember that all things can not be measured in money and material items. That is especially important in relation to the Soviet society. Their wiew of world is different from ours (let us see, who is us; I am a Finn and the Net goes all the way to Australia. Hmm.) They might not have electric can openers, but they might still live their lives quite happy. Leningrad is a very nice city to visit. They have really great museums there, lots of art and history. Also the arcitecture is fine. Just remember to be open minded if you go there. Well, thats today's ramblings. I have directed the follow-up to misc.misc, since we do not receive any rec.travel groups here. Timo Kiravuo 90-451 4328 kiravuo@hut.fi kiravuo@fingate.bitnet opmvax::kiravuo