davef@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Dave Fiske) (01/04/89)
In article <10@blender.UUCP>, root@blender.UUCP (Super user) writes: > Our office is a victim of Junk-Fax but we've found a solution to the problem. > Coming into the office one morning we were greeted by a 5 foot long banner > with a fax number on top, an order form and then the message (in big letters) > "ARE YOU OUT OF PAPER?". What we did was to chop the banner into 8x10 pieces, > put them in the sheet feeder and told it to send 99 copies of each page. We Better yet, on a recent NBC News report about Fax machines, someone said their policy is to get a long piece of paper, tape the ends together to form a loop, and just let the machine go for a few hours, continuously sending it to the junk mailer. Of course, you're really cutting off your nose to spite your face, since you're denying yourself normal use of the "expensive" machine in the process. Although I think there are some very good uses for facsimile transmission, it seems that the ones whic are promoted and carried on are the trivial and non-cost-effective ones: sending orders to delis, sending requests to radio stations, and sending typewritten text documents (which could have been typed on a computer, instead). Unless the companies pushing faxes start promoting more serious uses, I see this as a 2 or 3 year fad. -- "JUNGLE GUIDE IS EATEN Dave Fiske (davef@brspyr1.BRS.COM) BY 9-FOOT-TALL ANTS!" Home: David_A_Fiske@cup.portal.com Headline from Weekly World News CIS: 75415,163 GEnie: davef #! rnews
rang@cpsin3.cps.msu.edu (Anton Rang) (01/06/89)
A quick note which may be of interest: Wisconsin is considering banning "junk fax" (== unrequested transmissions, I think).... +---------------------------+------------------------+----------------------+ | Anton Rang (grad student) | "VMS Forever!" | "Do worry...be SAD!" | | Michigan State University | rang@cpswh.cps.msu.edu | | +---------------------------+------------------------+----------------------+
bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) (01/06/89)
In article <5207@brspyr1.BRS.Com>, davef@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Dave Fiske) writes: > > Better yet, on a recent NBC News report about Fax machines, someone > said their policy is to get a long piece of paper, tape the ends > together to form a loop, and just let the machine go for a few hours, > continuously sending it to the junk mailer. > > Although I think there are some very good uses for facsimile > transmission, it seems that the ones whic are promoted and carried on > are the trivial and non-cost-effective ones: sending orders to delis, > sending requests to radio stations, and sending typewritten text > documents (which could have been typed on a computer, instead). > > Unless the companies pushing faxes start promoting more serious uses, I > see this as a 2 or 3 year fad. As far as I know none of the people I deal with has had much trouble (yet) with junk fax. I'm sure that when they do, the junk fax will get all the attention they deserve. :-) But even for transmitting typewritten text, fax can be a real lifesaver. Not all typewritten text is coming from a device which is compatible with the computers which might have to be made to talk to each other; besides the obvious real typewriters (which still exist :-) you get all sorts of other situations. For example, last summer we were able to troubleshoot the problems a customer in Japan was having by looking at fax listings of data line monitor listings. Now it might have been possible to convert the data line monitor output to something digestible by a PC and then eventually fight your way through several systems transmitting it via KERMIT (or whatever), but this would still not include any handwritten notations (like "problem starts HERE"). Much as we would like, things just don't always talk to each other well - fax can cut through all this. Nothing that I see happening is likely to change the need for this kind of rapid communication in the near future - it means more than just changes in modem and computer technology (bad enough); it means major changes in the way people work. Lots of times text that's produced isn't on a computer; also you often want to send something that's inherently graphical in nature (reprints, photographs, drawings, etc). On the other hand, I really don't see much point in the fax-as-computer- peripheral. In order to be really useful, you need a very high-quality output device (like a laser printer) and a scanner - otherwise you just have a fancy way to send text which isn't too much different from a modem. By the time you've paid for the board+scanner+printer you've paid _more_ than what a real fax costs. Arguably this arrangement is more powerful, but it is being sold as being _cheaper_. Seems to me it's cheaper in only a few situations where it is for some reason never necessary to send or receive graphics (and therefore you can cut the expensive printer and scanner) and where you need to send fax as opposed to text files on a modem link. I have a hard time thinking of any but specialty applications for this sort of product. Salesmen for example often send quotes by fax because the customers want quotes quickly, but they often send graphics too ... rendering the PC based products as less than ideal. There is no question that there are some places which have become too caught up in the "gee whiz" of fax, but the technology itself is enormously useful and is likely to be around a long time. I don't know what "companies promoting fax" you are referring to; if it is the fax sales companies, well, caveat emptor. You only need fax if you need fast turnaround with correspondents inside or outside your organization - which is not universal but not uncommon either. Trying to make fax solve every problem is silly. Bruce C. Wright
jim@eda.com (Jim Budler) (01/08/89)
In article <5207@brspyr1.BRS.Com> davef@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Dave Fiske) writes: | Although I think there are some very good uses for facsimile | transmission, it seems that the ones whic are promoted and carried on | are the trivial and non-cost-effective ones: sending orders to delis, | sending requests to radio stations, and sending typewritten text | documents (which could have been typed on a computer, instead). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wow, far out! Not very long ago, couple years, the statement concerning need for computers in small offices/business was "which could have been typed on a typewriter, instead". We've come a long way, baby! Seriously, 8^), we use much fax, AND e-mail in our business. Serious reasons for fax, as opposed to e-mail: 1. You can't put a signature on e-mail. (see 3, below) 2. A fax works for a distant, non-technical person (eg. salesman in remote office), e-mail requires more technical knowledge to setup and maintain, and often to use. Fax machines are usually plug and play. (Plug and play e-mail will probably appear in the future. I don't consider the current level of commercial e-mail as adequate to replace fax. Your opinion may differ). 3. Diagrams, etc. between offices with incompatible, or non-existant graphical computers (will probably disappear as a reason in time as standards/software/computers evolve). | Unless the companies pushing faxes start promoting more serious uses, I | see this as a 2 or 3 year fad. I agree that faxes have a limited lifespan, but I wouldn't call it fad. I just feel that the evolution of e-mail will eventualy replace fax. jim -- Jim Budler address = uucp: ...!{decwrl,uunet}!eda!jim domain: jim@eda.com
jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) (01/10/89)
In article <2696@rti.UUCP>, bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) writes: > ... I really don't see much point in the fax-as-computer peripheral. > In order to be really useful, you need a very high-quality output > device (like a laser printer) and a scanner ... By the time you've > paid for [this] you've paid _more_ than what a real fax costs ... but > it is being sold as being _cheaper_. ... > If a person has a need for a PC as well as a fax machine, I think that PC-based fax makes a lot of sense. Since a laser printer is a nearly essential computer peripheral, the only "extra" equipment is a $600-$900 fax card and a $1,300 scanner. A scanner like the HP SCAN-JET, capable of 600 dpi resolution, is likewise a very desirable peripheral. Among other things, it will allow the PC to function as a plain-paper copier and a telecopier. It is possible to obtain a fax machine for $1,000, but plain-paper capability costs at least $2,500, (electrostatic paper must be copied onto plain paper for long-term storage), and no inexpensive fax machines have a PC's flexibility for document manipulation and redistribution. The real advantage of PC-based fax, however, is the growing availability of optical character recognition software. If someone sends a fax of something written on a manual typewriter, a stand-alone fax machine is of no use in transferring the information to your computer. -- John E Van Deusen, PO Box 9283, Boise, ID 83707. (208) 343-1865
jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) (01/15/89)
In article <430@visdc.UUCP> jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) writes: >In article <2696@rti.UUCP>, bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) writes: > >> ... I really don't see much point in the fax-as-computer peripheral. [ deleted ] >If a person has a need for a PC as well as a fax machine, I think that >PC-based fax makes a lot of sense. Since a laser printer is a nearly >essential computer peripheral, the only "extra" equipment is a $600-$900 Sorry, I disagree. A laser printer is not an essential peripheral. Maybe for you, but not for a lot of small businesses which do need faxes. >fax card and a $1,300 scanner. A scanner like the HP SCAN-JET, capable >of 600 dpi resolution, is likewise a very desirable peripheral. Among >other things, it will allow the PC to function as a plain-paper copier >and a telecopier. > >It is possible to obtain a fax machine for $1,000, but plain-paper Thank you. Going by your prices, a small customer has the following choices of equipment to buy and money to spend: 1. laser printer > $ 1000 2. scanner app. $ 1300 3. Fax card (mode 3) > $ 1000 (my guess) total: more than $ 3300, add at least 600 for an HP laserjet. 1. Fax (electrostatic) < $ 1000 a savings of at least $ 2300 1. Fax (plain paper) app. $ 2500 a savings of at least $ 800 On top of everything else you suggest that the fax is a good substitute for a copier. Several comments. First, try making multiple copies in a reasonable amount of time on a fax. Second, unless you have a scanner you cannot copy pages in a book. Third, do you really want to put the computer down while it is making a copy? JB -- Jonathan Bayer "The time has come," the Walrus said... Intelligent Software Products, Inc. 19 Virginia Ave. ...uunet!ispi!jbayer Rockville Centre, NY 11570 (516) 766-2867 jbayer@ispi
sl@van-bc.UUCP (pri=-10 Stuart Lynne) (01/16/89)
In article <412@ispi.UUCP> jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) writes: }In article <430@visdc.UUCP> jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) writes: }>In article <2696@rti.UUCP>, bcw@rti.UUCP (Bruce Wright) writes: }> }>> ... I really don't see much point in the fax-as-computer peripheral. } [ deleted ] } } 1. laser printer > $ 1000 } 2. scanner app. $ 1300 } 3. Fax card (mode 3) > $ 1000 (my guess) } total: more than $ 3300, add at least 600 for } an HP laserjet. Try: 3. Fax card (mode 3) < $ 300 (recent issue of PC Week) -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!sl Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532
jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) (01/16/89)
It believe the best stand-alone fax machine is the very cheapest. It
represents the lowest cost for an expensive, single-purpose piece of
office equipment that can not interface with other office equipment.
There are certain applications utilizing fax technology that require
more capability than is provided by the basic stand-alone machine.
These capabilities are available on stand-alone machines (such as the
Ricoh 2100) for nearly three times the cost of the most basic machine.
At some point, a PC-based facsimile system, with incomparably greater
capability and flexibility becomes a viable option in comparison with
an enhanced stand-alone machine.
Some of the enhanced capabilities that might prove useful include the
following:
A: Send output from word processing to a remote fax machine.
B: Receive a fax transmission from a remote machine and modify it
utilizing a word processor.
C: Archive a fax transmission.
D: Do data entry by OCR on a fax transmission.
E: Distribute a fax transmission to multiple locations.
The same equipment required for a PC-based system to do the above
could also be used as follows:
A: Scan logos, artwork, and documentation at up to 600 dpi.
B: Reproduce that high-quality graphics image at a local or a
remote location.
C: Save that image to produce a very high quality copy at a
later time.
D: Do very reliable OCR data entry.
It has been stated in this forum that utilizing a PC fax card takes
down the PC. This is not true. See the Dec. 88, issue of BYTE
for the review of the Intel board. See also "Facsimile Networking with
Personal computers: A Shopper's Guide" in the March 88 issue of DATA
COMMUNICATIONS. Anyone starting from scratch should also take a look
at the Cannon laser copiers with the computer interface, (like the D30).
I know of at least one company using these with PCs and a satellite link
to provide high quality international zap mail.
==
John E Van Deusen, PO Box 9283, Boise, ID 83707, (208) 343-1865
uunet!visdc!jiii