gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu (03/14/89)
Why can't computer companies introduce new models only in the fall,
like the auto industry? It makes a whole h*ll of a lot more sense
than the current arrangement.
People get screwed all the time (I'm thinking about Apple customers)
when a company introduces a new model at a random time of the year.
Often, customer have bought machines the day before the new model came
out, with no inkling that a new model would REALLY appear. Apple has
introduced two such machines in the last two months!!!
All it takes is a little discipline in the engineering and marketing
divisions of the computer company. And a little empathy / respect for
the customer. I guess this is what's really missing.
Don Gillies, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Illinois
1304 W. Springfield, Urbana, Ill 61801
ARPA: gillies@cs.uiuc.edu UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!uiucdcs!gilliesdoug@armada.UUCP (Doug Hoffman) (03/16/89)
In article <79700022@p.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > > People get screwed all the time (I'm thinking about Apple customers) > when a company introduces a new model at a random time of the year. > Often, customer have bought machines the day before the new model came > out, with no inkling that a new model would REALLY appear. Apple has > introduced two such machines in the last two months!!! > > Don Gillies I don't understand this. How is this screwing anybody? If they paid a fair price for the product capibilities, then how is it they have lost anything? If you want to have the absolute biggest bang for the buck, look in the trade rags for the vaporware and "newest" hardware (delivery more than a year out). Feel free to wait until you can actually buy the best that anyone can advertise. You'll wait forever. When you buy, you should be buying with the knowledge that someday (soon) better, less expensive equipment will be available. You should be buying the best you can get today to solve your problem. I certainly don't want to see anyone hold products off the market until a particular day of year so that all vendors can introduce at once. That's plain silly (IMHO). Doug Hoffman
dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) (03/17/89)
>> People get screwed all the time (I'm thinking about Apple customers) >> when a company introduces a new model at a random time of the year. >> Often, customer have bought machines the day before the new model came >> out, with no inkling that a new model would REALLY appear. Apple has >> introduced two such machines in the last two months!!! >> >> Don Gillies > >I don't understand this. How is this screwing anybody? If they paid >a fair price for the product capibilities, then how is it they have >lost anything? > >Doug Hoffman Doug, I don't entirely agree. I've been caught in the same trap more than once. Even asked the vendor if new models were expected, and what new features/prices were anticipated. "Oh, no. We don't expect anything new for at least the rest of the year!" Bullshit! Now I have *last year's* product, at full retail price, and the NEW, IMPROVED model is available at 10% more than I just paid. If I'm really lucky, I can try to dump the one I bought, but wont get nearly what I paid for it. I understand that this is normal economics, but the buyer is getting screwed nevertheless, if only because of the lack of substantial info regarding new releases. >I certainly don't want to see anyone hold products off the market until >a particular day of year so that all vendors can introduce at once. >That's plain silly (IMHO). > Agreed. But they *should* ANNOUNCE new products, and not just vaporware press releases a year in advance! This is sometimes the dealer's fault, but I have seen the case where a product was actually unveiled, but not released to the retailers for several months... Dave
aad@stpstn.UUCP (Anthony A. Datri) (03/17/89)
In article <79700022@p.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >Why can't computer companies introduce new models only in the fall, >like the auto industry? It makes a whole h*ll of a lot more sense >than the current arrangement. >People get screwed all the time (I'm thinking about Apple customers) In the car industry, there usually isn't much difference between a 19xy and a 19xy+1 car, and it seems to me like the introductions are spread all over the year, perhaps with a concentration in the latter half. In the computer industry, a given peice of hardware is obsolete as soon as you get it. I've got Sun 2's here dated 1986 that I get all kinds of stupid "junk" comments about. When a vendor announces a new peice, the saleability of the previous model goes way down. What they often do is clear out their warehouses and *then* announce. I knew someone at CMU who bought a PC Jr. two weeks before it was discontinued. An exception, of course is hardware that matches "IBM.*System.*". People who buy those will buy whatever IBM tells them to. Apple has created a strange situation, though, with the pricing and nature of their current product line. -- @disclaimer(Any concepts or opinions above are entirely mine, not those of my employer, my GIGI, my VT05, or my 11/34) beak is@>beak is not Anthony A. Datri @SysAdmin(Stepstone Corporation) aad@stepstone.com stpstn!aad
baum@Apple.COM (Allen J. Baum) (03/18/89)
[] >In article <15903@cup.portal.com> dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) writes: >Agreed. But they *should* ANNOUNCE new products, and not just vaporware >press releases a year in advance! This is sometimes the dealer's fault, >but I have seen the case where a product was actually unveiled, but not >released to the retailers for several months... > >Dave I'm afraid there are some serious legal implications to this. If you announce something a year in advance, and your schedule slips, lawsuits are possible; your competitors claim you pre-announced a whizzy vaporware procudct so that everyone would wait to buy your product, and wouldn't buy theirs (IBM lost a $100 million dollar lawsuit over that one). Not to mention the fact that this gives your competitors a years head start on what your product and marketing plans are, or the fact that the chances that nothing will change in your product plans in that year is close to zilch. So, maufacturers lose either way; they get lawsuits if they're late, or tip off the competition if they're not. I'm afraid that none of these 'pre-announce' schemes have the slightest chance of working, in the real world of course. -- baum@apple.com (408)974-3385 {decwrl,hplabs}!amdahl!apple!baum
doug@armada.UUCP (Doug Hoffman) (03/18/89)
In article <15903@cup.portal.com>, dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) writes: > >> People get screwed all the time (I'm thinking about Apple customers) > >> when a company introduces a new model at a random time of the year. > >> Don Gillies > > > >I don't understand this. How is this screwing anybody? If they paid > >a fair price for the product capibilities, then how is it they have > >lost anything? > > I don't entirely agree. > [stuff deleted] Now I have > *last year's* product, at full retail price, and the NEW, IMPROVED model > is available at 10% more than I just paid. If I'm really lucky, I can > try to dump the one I bought, but wont get nearly what I paid for it. What I don't understand is why you need to dump it at all. If you bought it to do a job then either it is adequate to do the job or it isn't. If it is capable then you don't *need* to dump it. If it isn't capable, then you shouldn't have purchased it in the first place. In neither case has the vendor's NEW, IMPROVED model caused you any direct loss. > But they *should* ANNOUNCE new products, and not just vaporware > press releases a year in advance! > > Dave I believe Osborn is an excellent example of what can happen to a company when they announce a new product *weeks* early. Put them literally out of business. When and what to announce is a business decision. Some companies handle it better than others. I'm a person who shops around for a good (hopefully great) deal before making a major purchase. But I certainly don't get upset if I make what I feel is a good purchase and then see that "I could have gotten it for less" when it later goes on sale, or I see another place advertise a lower price. And, I only have myself to blame if I make a bad deal in the first place. Doug
buck@siswat.UUCP (A. Lester Buck) (03/19/89)
In article <15903@cup.portal.com>, dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) writes: > >> People get screwed all the time (I'm thinking about Apple customers) > >> when a company introduces a new model at a random time of the year. > >> Often, customer have bought machines the day before the new model came > >> out, with no inkling that a new model would REALLY appear. Apple has > >> introduced two such machines in the last two months!!! > >> > >> Don Gillies > > > >I don't understand this. How is this screwing anybody? If they paid > >a fair price for the product capibilities, then how is it they have > >lost anything? > > > >Doug Hoffman > > Doug, I don't entirely agree. I've been caught in the same trap more > than once. Even asked the vendor if new models were expected, and > what new features/prices were anticipated. "Oh, no. We don't expect > anything new for at least the rest of the year!" Bullshit! Now I have > *last year's* product, at full retail price, and the NEW, IMPROVED model If this had happened in Texas, you could sue under the Deceptive Trade Practices/Consumer Protection Act. Specifically, this practice comes under the list of unlawful trade practices, (23) the failure to disclose information concerning goods or services which was known at the time of the transaction if such failure to disclose such information was intended to induce the consumer into a transaction into which the consumer would not have entered had the information been disclosed. By following the procedure in the Act (30 days notice of intention to sue, quoting above section), you can recover three times your actual damages, up to $1000 dollars. Just mentioning the DTPA in Texas gets LOTS of attention from vendors. Texas is not usually a leader in legal innovation, but it has one of the toughest (if not THE toughest) consumer protection laws, and it works. I used it to file a small claims case once, and they caved in instantly. Some other states have similar laws - don't let them screw you! -- A. Lester Buck ...!texbell!moray!siswat!buck
jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) (03/20/89)
In article <382@siswat.UUCP>, buck@siswat.UUCP (A. Lester Buck) writes: > > If this had happened in Texas, you could sue under the Deceptive Trade > Practices/Consumer Protection Act. > (23) the failure to disclose information concerning goods or services > which was known at the time of the transaction if such failure > to disclose such information was intended to induce the > consumer into a transaction into which the consumer would not > have entered had the information been disclosed. > Ahhh, but does it cover not telling you about a product not on the market yet? I think a vendor might be willing to fight you on that, at least until its resolved by the courts. Para un Tejas Libre, Jeff Daiell -- "Buy land. They've stopped making it." -- Mark Twain
bph@buengc.BU.EDU (Blair P. Houghton) (03/25/89)
In article <3481@ficc.uu.net> jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) writes: >In article <382@siswat.UUCP>, buck@siswat.UUCP (A. Lester Buck) writes: >> >> If this had happened in Texas, you could sue under the Deceptive Trade >> Practices/Consumer Protection Act. > >> (23) the failure to disclose information concerning goods or services [...] > >Ahhh, but does it cover not telling you about a product not on the >market yet? I think a vendor might be willing to fight you on >that, at least until its resolved by the courts. If you ask "is this about to become obsolete?" and they say nothing or "I don't know" and you buy and next week it becomes obsolete, my guess is you got lied to. "Failure to disclose" catches that erroneous "I don't know," provided you ask someone who should know. Presumably then that person's only responsive answer would be "yes" or "no". Since that person said something nonresponsive, that person is hiding the real answer. If the real answer was "no", why would that person hide it? Therefore, a competent authority on that information (you don't believe salesmen, do you? :) would have been in violation of the Act if you got any answer other than "yes." The trick is to ask all the way up the line until you get "yes" or "no" or can prove the final answer of "I don't know" came from someone who couldn't not-know. --Blair "Get it? Got it. Good."