bob@imspw6.UUCP (Bob Burch) (04/10/89)
From Ted Holden, HTE: ............................... A voice in the wilderness, from the fatherland: >In the field of art and technology, not only the pollution of the natural >(material) environment must be fought but also -- and with the same effort >-- the pollution of the cultural (informational) environment. In a nutshell: >Culture conservation is as important as nature conservation. >["Maxim of rejection of informational pollution"] What almost shocks me about this is that it should come from Germany; TV over there is really pretty tame and pretty civilized, at least what I've seen. The fact that you just get test patterns during the daytime over there is also commendable. If Herr Frank really wants to see pollution on the airwaves, which I assume is most of what he's talking about, he should come over here. TV is supposed to be the great technological marvel of our age and, yet, I know increasing numbers of people who will no longer have them in their houses for the sake of their children, and that's pretty sad. The thing I have the most difficulty with is what I call disconnected violence. I don't particularly mind having kids watch American football, or one of Mike Tyson's or Roberto Duran's outings, or even something like the old 'Victory at Sea' series; that's connected voilence. A kid can pretty easily see that war is a nasty business watching Victory at Sea or that you'd really better know what you're getting into if you're thinking about getting into prize-fighting or NFL football. All of the consequences of these things are right there in front of him. However, when an American kid watches WWF wrestling, or any of the bullshit cartoons that one sees on TV anymore (metalman, superheros, league of justice, defenders of the earth, transformers, and on and on and on), he's seeing sadism glorified, and disconnected violence. He is being told that he can drop-kick the kid next door, gouge his eyes out, beat his head into the oak tree, break chairs over his head etc. etc. etc., and that nothing really bad will come of it; the kid next door will probably recuperate and be back to normal an hour later, just like Hulk Hogan does. Watching the A-Team, a kid learns that he can fire machine-guns at the other team for hours on end, and they'll probably be all right, except possibly for a few bruises. Like I say, I just have a really hard time with all of this. The commercial TV networks are really lying to our children. When somebody yells 'FIRE!' in a crowded place where there is no fire and causes a panic and a number of people get trampled trying to get out, American law cracks down on the culprit pretty hard; no liberals or ACLU types will be noted standing around protesting his innocence due to 2'nd ammendment rights. Logically, I fail to see any really good reason not to do the same with the purveyors of WWF wrestling, A-TEAM, 90 percent of the Saturnday morning cartoon offerings, and a great deal of the other garbage on our air waves. Ted Holden HTE
jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) (04/11/89)
If Ted Holden can't see the difference between being in a theater
when someone yells "Fire!" and being a potential TV watcher, he's
in serious trouble.
Ted, go back to the first part of your own posting -- the one about
all the folks who won't have a TV in their house.
I *like* the 1st Amendment. (Also the 2nd, which you cited
incorrectly). Given a choice between the ACLU and either
Datafuhrer Frank or you, I'll take the ACLU.
For Texas Independence,
Jeff Daiell
--
Salve lucrum!cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (04/11/89)
> From Ted Holden, HTE: > The thing I have the most difficulty with is what I call disconnected > violence. I don't particularly mind having kids watch American football, or > one of Mike Tyson's or Roberto Duran's outings, or even something like the > old 'Victory at Sea' series; that's connected voilence. A kid can pretty > easily see that war is a nasty business watching Victory at Sea or that > you'd really better know what you're getting into if you're thinking about > getting into prize-fighting or NFL football. All of the consequences of > these things are right there in front of him. > > However, when an American kid watches WWF wrestling, or any of the bullshit > cartoons that one sees on TV anymore (metalman, superheros, league of > justice, defenders of the earth, transformers, and on and on and on), he's > seeing sadism glorified, and disconnected violence. He is being told that While I agree with Ted about what he calls "disconnected violence" (more accurately, unrealistic non-consequential violence), I think calling it "sadism glorified" is a bit strong. These shows glorify violence, not sadism. > he can drop-kick the kid next door, gouge his eyes out, beat his head into > the oak tree, break chairs over his head etc. etc. etc., and that nothing > really bad will come of it; the kid next door will probably recuperate and > be back to normal an hour later, just like Hulk Hogan does. Watching the > A-Team, a kid learns that he can fire machine-guns at the other team for > hours on end, and they'll probably be all right, except possibly for a few > bruises. This was long my objection to the "A Team" -- that so many bullets could be fired and never hit anyone! Admittedly, it was sort of a cartoon for adults, but it was popular with a lot of kids. On the other hand, a show like "Miami Vice" contains a tremendous amount of violence, but there are consequences to that violence -- death, suffering, and emotional trauma. THAT sort of violence doesn't bother me, because it shows the consequences. My wife feels the same way about how sex is portrayed on television -- especially the soap operas. > Like I say, I just have a really hard time with all of this. The commercial > TV networks are really lying to our children. When somebody yells 'FIRE!' > in a crowded place where there is no fire and causes a panic and a number of > people get trampled trying to get out, American law cracks down on the > culprit pretty hard; no liberals or ACLU types will be noted standing > around protesting his innocence due to 2'nd ammendment rights. Logically, I First Amendment, I think you mean. If my memory serves me right, the example of shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater comes from the minority opinion written by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes involving distribution of anti-draft literature during World War I. Not a very persuasive line of reasoning, considering the context of the statement. > fail to see any really good reason not to do the same with the purveyors of > WWF wrestling, A-TEAM, 90 percent of the Saturnday morning cartoon > offerings, and a great deal of the other garbage on our air waves. > > Ted Holden One good reason: there are a lot of people who feel, just as strongly, that magazines like Playboy and Penthouse should be prohibited because they provide the same unrealistic, non-consequential view of sex. Do we really want to repeal the First Amendment? -- Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer Abandon all hopes of utopia -- there are people involved. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer? You must be kidding! No company would hold opinions like mine!