cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) (05/03/89)
Does anyone know what impact the airport security systems can have on a portable computer? A colleague had his laptop passed through the metal detector and one raster-line of the display stopped working... it might be coincidence, but it sure lOOKED like the magnetic detector may have caused some havoc. In particular: CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? Does the answer change if the laptop has, say, an internal hard disk? Thanks __ / ) Bernie Cosell /--< _ __ __ o _ BBN Sys & Tech, Cambridge, MA 02238 /___/_(<_/ (_/) )_(_(<_ cosell@bbn.com
fraga@tennents.cs.ubc.ca (Eric S Fraga) (05/03/89)
In article <39382@bbn.COM> cosell@BBN.COM (Bernie Cosell) writes: >In particular: CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the >xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? All I can say is that after many frustrating events where I tried to get my Model 100 hand-checked and usually not succeeding, I have given up and just put the thing on the x-ray conveyor belt. So far, no problems. Mind you, there's no disc (floppy or hard). However, I do make sure that any disks I might have do get checked by hand. eric +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Eric S Fraga, Department of Computer Science, University of British Columbia| |phone: +1 604 228 6063, fraga@faculty.cs.ubc.ca | fraga@faculty.cs.ubc.cdn | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
gentry@kcdev.UUCP (Art Gentry) (05/03/89)
In article <39382@bbn.COM>, cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) writes: > Does anyone know what impact the airport security systems can have on > a portable computer? A colleague had his laptop passed through the metal > detector and one raster-line of the display stopped working... > I don't have any facts on what the various security systems may do to a laptop, I have just heard rumors and horror stories. As a precaution and for a little piece of mind, I have always had my laptop (HP110+) hand checked. I have carried it for 6+ years on many trips a year and have never had a hassle from the airport folks about a hand check. The same is true for discs and tapes that I carry. Art
hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) (05/04/89)
In article <39382@bbn.COM> cosell@BBN.COM (Bernie Cosell) writes: }... CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the }xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? Does the answer change if the }laptop has, say, an internal hard disk? One thing is pretty certain. _At best_, these systems will do the computer no good. X-rays are unlikely to damage magnetic media. However, x-rays are focused with big magnets. I wouldn't run a magnetic disk through an x-ray machine if I could help it. -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimati Nil Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 452-9191, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
prc@erbe.se (Robert Claeson) (05/05/89)
In article <1953@ubc-cs.UUCP>, fraga@tennents.cs.ubc.ca (Eric S Fraga) writes: > In article <39382@bbn.COM> cosell@BBN.COM (Bernie Cosell) writes: > >In particular: CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the > >xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? > > All I can say is that after many frustrating events where I tried > to get my Model 100 hand-checked and usually not succeeding, I > have given up and just put the thing on the x-ray conveyor belt. > So far, no problems. Mind you, there's no disc (floppy or hard). > > However, I do make sure that any disks I might have do get > checked by hand. I've sent many tapes and diskettes with data on them to various countries, and have never lost a single byte. Mind you, all mail are checked with x-ray machines with stronger radiation than in the ones used for hand luggage at airports. As I'm working for a distributor of computer equipment from a certain U.S. computer company, all systems shipped to us usually have the o/s and misc. software pre-installed at the factory. The systems are of course x-rayed, both in the U.S. and here in Sweden. We've never had any problem with lost bits on the disks on arrival. -- Robert Claeson, ERBE DATA AB, P.O. Box 77, S-175 22 Jarfalla, Sweden Tel: +46 (0)758-202 50 Fax: +46 (0)758-197 20 EUnet: rclaeson@ERBE.SE uucp: {uunet,enea}!erbe.se!rclaeson ARPAnet: rclaeson%ERBE.SE@uunet.UU.NET BITNET: rclaeson@ERBE.SE
dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) (05/05/89)
>Does anyone know what impact the airport security systems can have on >a portable computer? A colleague had his laptop passed through the metal >detector and one raster-line of the display stopped working... it might >be coincidence, but it sure lOOKED like the magnetic detector may have >caused some havoc. > >In particular: CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the >xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? Does the answer change if the >laptop has, say, an internal hard disk? > >Thanks >Bernie Cosell 1) The metal detectors use a very low level magnetic field to detect massive metallic objects passing through. The field strength required to zap a disk of any sort is relatively enormous. The small write currents work only due to a *very* small head gap and *extremely* close proximity to the media. 2) Likewise for X-rays, only more so. I suppose a high enough dosage *could* have some effect on magnetic media, but I don't know what. Certainly the dosage used in the airport x-ray machines, which are (moderately) safe for unexposed film, would have no effect. As for effect on microcircuits, they can be damaged by ionizing radiation, but again, the level is just too low. Also, most MOS circuits are only transiently disturbed by radiation; the real damage occurs when the power is on, and a radiation burst causes a short or latch-up condition through two transistors that would normally never be both turned on simultaneously... On the other hand, what I've done is to hand the machine to an attendant, telling him that I don't want it X-rayed. I am the asked to open the case, and usually, to turn it on. Of course, we *all* know I couldn't hide more than 8 or 16 ounces of C4 inside a working laptop... :{) Dave dbell@cup.portal.com
clive@ixi.UUCP (Clive) (05/05/89)
In article <39382@bbn.COM>, cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) writes: > Does anyone know what impact the airport security systems can have on > a portable computer? A colleague had his laptop passed through the metal > detector and one raster-line of the display stopped working... I have a Toshiba T1200 laptop (20Mb hard disc). London Heathrow Terminal 4 insist that it goes through the scanner - it hasn't broken yet. All USA airports I have used, plus Kai-Tak (Hong Kong) and Narita South Terminal (Tokyo) are happy to hand inspect, provided I power it up. -- Clive D.W. Feather clive@ixi.uucp IXI Limited ...!mcvax!ukc!acorn!ixi!clive (untested) +44 223 462 131
cam@edai.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm cam@uk.ac.ed.edai 031 667 1011 x2550) (05/05/89)
What about X-rays (ionizing radiation) and EPROMS (usually erased by leaking charge thru ultraviolet-induced ionisation)? Note that EPROM erasure is a cumulative effect. Anybody know the relevant figures? -- Chris Malcolm cam@uk.ac.ed.edai 031 667 1011 x2550 Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK
mitra@cdp.UUCP (05/06/89)
I have usually managed to get any machine I am carrying checked by hand (if it has a hard disk) but did get a lot of disk errors after not succeeding one time. Beware - Heathrow airport (and I suspect any other UK one) absolutely refuse to check by hand (except floppies which I've had no trouble anywhere with). I understand the security considerations but couldnt we lobby for some form of "Fragile" category for checked baggage - carried on by the passenger but not X-Rayed and NOT available to the passenger in flight. Every time I persuade someone a box is a computer I realise how easy it would be to hide something in it. - Mitra
mlinar@eve.usc.edu (Mitch Mlinar) (05/07/89)
In article <39382@bbn.COM> cosell@BBN.COM (Bernie Cosell) writes: > >In particular: CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the >xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? Does the answer change if the >laptop has, say, an internal hard disk? > Floppies and such are unlikely to be affected by the low level of magnetics on the walk-through detecter. Probably even less by the X-ray. Both tapes and floppies have traveled this route numerous times with no problem. On the other hand, many laptops have older CMOS EPROMs which are affected - over time - by X-ray. The result *IS* cumulative as each time you get it X-rayed, it increases the floating gate charge a "tad". What that "tad" is, I do not think has been measured and is likely to depend upon a whole bunch of other factors (initial gate charge, temperature, etc.) I have only one data point: after having an Epson for six months, my friend started to travel with it. After the 11th trip through X-ray, the machine broke. Fortunately, he had read all of the machines CMOS EPROMs shortly after purchase (4 of them). He burned a whole new set and swapped one at a time on the chance that it was the EPROM; he found the offending one. It has been a year since of the same air travel, but the machine is always hand checked now. No other problems have occurred. As someone else pointed out, other chips which do not have floating gate charges (uP and other logic) are not likely to be affected. I understand that newer CMOS EPROMs are "sturdier" (higher floating gate voltage?) and, thus, are not QUITE as finicky. However, given that hand check takes a good minute extra, I do not take the X-ray risk. -Mitch
mcwill@inmos.co.uk (Iain McWilliams) (05/08/89)
In article <135900009@cdp> mitra@cdp.UUCP writes: > >I understand the security considerations but couldnt we lobby >for some form of "Fragile" category for checked baggage - >carried on by the passenger but not X-Rayed and NOT available >to the passenger in flight. Every time I persuade someone a box >is a computer I realise how easy it would be to hide something >in it. > >- Mitra Hold on there, this may stop someone hiding a handgun in a laptop. However, it won't stop a laptop/Cassette Recorder being used to place a bomb in the baggage hold. Then again, is normal baggage X-Rayed before it's placed in the baggage hold. If so, then why can't customs officals use this to spot drug trafficing ? Iain. -- Iain McWilliams Inmos Ltd, Bristol | EMail(UK) ukc!inmos!mcwill ---------------------------------------| or mcwill@inmos.co.uk The opinions above are my personal | Internet: @col.hp.com:mcwill@inmos-c views and do not refelect Inmos policy.| UUCP:(US) uunet!inmos-c!mcwill
hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) (05/09/89)
In article <135900009@cdp> mitra@cdp.UUCP writes: }I understand the security considerations but couldnt we lobby }for some form of "Fragile" category for checked baggage - }carried on by the passenger but not X-Rayed and NOT available }to the passenger in flight. ... Unfortunately, it could still contain something that might go "BOOM!" in the night. They're looking for bombs as well as weapons. -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimati Nil Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 452-9191, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
wb8foz@cucstud.UUCP (David Lesher) (05/09/89)
The sad fact of the matter is that the security people can
{hand inspect, x-ray, hand inspect_AND_x-ray} all they want
and still not find any plastique. But I shutter at trying to
keep the two types of 'sniffers' en-route to major a/ps
working.
BTW, to the best of my knowledge, the x-rays won't alter the
diskettes. Your enemy is the magnetically leaky power
transformer right up top with the tube.
--
uunet!cucstud!wb8foz David Lesher
impersonal zip code: 33157-0335wcs) (05/10/89)
I'd worry about floppies - there was a story on the radio a few days back about some people who'd taken their video camera on vacation, made a dozen or so tapes, checked them in their luggage, and when they got home the tapes were mostly blank. Now, it's tough to prove whether they really got recorded successfully, but the suspicion was that the baggage xrays in the Bahamas trashed them. A former officemate of mine used to always hand-check her floppies. At least once, the airline guard got picky about it, because the floppies were numbered, and some of them were missing. -- # Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G218 Holmdel NJ 201-949-0705 ho95c.att.com!wcs # also found at 201-271-4712 tarpon.att.com!wcs # welcome, to mars, eh, hosers! Have a brew and some donuts, eh?
pj@hrc63.co.uk (Mr P Johnson "Baddow") (05/16/89)
In article <39382@bbn.COM>, cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) writes: > > In particular: CAN the metals detectors harm microcircuits? How about the > xray machine... can zapping a laptop hurt it? Does the answer change if the > laptop has, say, an internal hard disk? > Disclaimer: I am NOT an expert. This is just me talking through my hat. Metal detectors work by measuring the inductance in a coil. You do this by making the coil part of an oscilator and measuring the frequency. Any metal object in range will have current induced, changing the inductance of the coil. The alternating magnetic field generated is probably good for erasing things like hard disks, but would depend on intensity. X-rays: Most airports have notices saying that tapes, disks & co are not affected. How this affects computer circuitry I do not know, but would not like to try. Having your computer hand-checked is probably the best plan. I would expect that most guards would co-operate on something like this. Also, back up your data & leave the copy at home. Paul.
jacka@hpcupt1.HP.COM (Jack C. Armstrong) (05/18/89)
I have no experience with lap-tops, but on trips where I carry magnetic media, I have always transported them *to* their destination very carefully, i.e., inside checked luggage, (sometimes in a lead film bag if I'm more paranoid than usual), or simply handed around (wayyyyy around....) the metal detector. On the trip home, the disks or tapes of things I have copies of I simply put through the x-ray or whatever they want. Upon checking them on my return, I have twice seen drop-out, in one case a totally scrambled diskette. This was no scientific experiment, but I find it curious that both failures occurred after passing through Heathrow, several years back, when they had X-ray machines that definitely *would* expose film, and were posted with warnings. (I always wondered what happened to the operators who stood in front of those things all day). Given that a magnetized paper clip once clobbered one of my diskettes, I'll believe some of those devices can do as well.