rg@psgdc (Dick Gill) (07/22/89)
In article <200@iclswe.UUCP> lars@iclswe.UUCP (Lars Tunkrans) writes: >In a pervious article Dick Gill wrote: > >>When we have clients who REALLY need the data on a backup tape >> ... > >... > >How do you guys make people do their bakups ? > Dare I say, the same way we make our children always obey and our salesmen always tell the absolute truth !;-) With great difficulty. I think that there are several things that can increase the liklihood of a client making regular backups: First, be sure that they understand that the humming little box in the corner is the only place that all of the business records of the organization are up to date and in one place; if that data disappears it is likely that the organization will quite literally be unable to continue functioning. No way to ship product, prepare invoices, collect bills, receive cash or even send a distress sale notice to all customers. The next step is to make the client organization, management and workers, fully aware that PROTECTION OF THE DATA IS SOLELY THEIR JOB. They must understand that while we can replace their hardware and software, there is often nothing we can do to reconstruct lost data (except charge them for our time spent attempting to do so - something neither of us like). Once they understand how important backups are, we have to make backups simple, accurate and highly reliable. The simplicity issue can be dealt with by good front-end scripts and ways to get the actual backup done at off times like overnight; larger capacity tape drives are really helping to simplify backups. The accuracy of backups deals with assuring that all of the critical files are actually being backed up, including program files which are unique to the installation. The reliability of each backup can be tested by reading a directory of the just-written tape back in to a disc file to verify that the tape is readable; in some instances a (time consuming) verify phase of the backup might be needed. After all of those things are done, your question still remains: how do you make them do the backups? I think the best bet is to get the client to think of backups like seat belts in their car and just automatically do them as a part of their business operation; not surprisingly, those who have been burned by loss of data without a backup tend to be the easiest to convince. Maybe it is a special DP right of passage. Dick -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Gill Professional Solutions Group (703)761-1163 ..uunet!psgdc!rg
ron@nbife.NBI.COM (Ron Schweikert) (07/28/89)
In article <200@iclswe.UUCP>, lars@iclswe.UUCP (Lars Tunkrans) writes: (a couple paragraphs on a customer who lost data, then...) > How do you guys make people do their bakups ? > Sorry, the mail bounced hence this posting. It's probably really obvious to everyone, but to answer Lars question, you can't really *make* them do backups. (It's like smoking, they have to want to.) How do you make them want to? Unfortunately with most customers, they don't *want* to until they have lost data. All you can do in advance is to try to tell them that no matter how great your hardware is, you can't control the thunderstorms, the power company etc. Things happen that are unforseen. I can't recall personally that I've ever had to work with a customer who lost data *twice*. They learn after the first time, unfortunately the hard way... -- Ron Schweikert 303/444-5710 x5026 {allegra,ucbvax,ncar,isieng}!nbires!hardy!nbife!ron
edhew@xenitec.uucp (Ed Hew) (07/30/89)
In article <1096@nbife.NBI.COM> ron@nbife.NBI.COM (Ron Schweikert) writes: >In article <200@iclswe.UUCP>, lars@iclswe.UUCP (Lars Tunkrans) writes: > >> How do you guys make people do their bakups ? > <valid comments on people doing backups after learning the hard way> >Unfortunately with most customers, they don't *want* to until they >have lost data. All you can do in advance is to try to tell them that no >matter how great your hardware is, you can't control the thunderstorms, the >power company etc. Things happen that are unforseen. I can't recall >personally that I've ever had to work with a customer who lost data *twice*. > >They learn after the first time, unfortunately the hard way... I teach SCO Xenix classes (amoungst other duties). Aside from covering the course materials, there are three areas I stress: 1/ Security 2/ Backups 3/ only be root as long as necessary To illustrate points 2 and 3, I use the following (true) story: One night I was adding some sxt devices to eliminate a "lack of resources" problem when using shell layers in SCO Xenix (this was long before we had mscreen and the nifty new hardware we now have that let you run 8 ports per serial tty, etc). Unfortunately before I knew it, my script had gone off and created several *thousand* additional sxt's, and I really didn't want them lying around, so I used a nifty little program called "keep" (the opposite of "rm") to keep the ones I wanted and discard the rest. Too bad I didn't specify my paramaters correctly, because (logged on as root), it did exactly what I told it to do, and rm'd all my devices, keeping of course the two sets of 7 sxt's I *did* want. It was about 3am after one of those marvelous 18 hour days, and I went digging for my distribution media (for a partial reinstall), and my *backups*. I had both handy (especially #2), so the system was up and waiting for it's users in a couple of hours, long before they came in to work. Since my average class consists of prospective corporate system administrators, they usually understand the portent of the scenario, and have their employers call the sales dept for some DC600's. It's inevitable that over a period of time everyone makes a mistake, so all you can do is to backup your data as insurance against that day. I try to use the personal approach to all this: "How pleased is *your* boss going to be when you go in and tell him his company is down because you didn't make backups"? Small companies where it's the employer taking the course really get the message. As you point out, they only have to make the mistake once, and I try to let them use this example as their mistake. (There are a few others I toss in during the course if they seem dubious). This makes our tech support people happier too. Nobody ever likes to tell a client that "it's gone!", and for $85./hour we'll verify that fact. One little tidbit I use: "The only question is not *if* your hard disk will fail, but rather *when*". >Ron Schweikert >303/444-5710 x5026 >{allegra,ucbvax,ncar,isieng}!nbires!hardy!nbife!ron Ed. A. Hew Technical Trainer Xeni/Con Corporation work: edhew@xenicon.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}utai!lsuc!xenicon!edhew ->home: edhew@egvideo.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}watmath!egvideo!edhew ->home: changing to: edhew@xenitec.uucp [but be patient for new maps] # I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on floppy around here somewhere!