eben@mmsac.UUCP (Eben R.S. Visher) (11/22/89)
The replies to the calculator question are confusing to me. Life's
one way conversions provide the answer.
If you need a calculator for supporting bookshelves, you use HP, obviously.
If you need to do lots of real work, you use RPN, obviously.
Anyone familiar with HP or RPN understands. Anyone else won't, but so
what? The same is true with Unix and VMS. Or Unix and DOS. Or sex
and bashing your head against a wall. In all cases, there is
essentially a one-way conversion process (from one state to the other)
with very little back-flow.
Ignore everyone who has not been solidly in each camp at one point in
his life, since he is missing an essential perspective. Also ignore
the strange people who comprise the reverse current (the people who
willingly switch from ten-speeds to one-speeds, Unix to VMS, sex to
abstinence, RPN to algebraic, C to FORTRAN, freedom to Communism, and
so on). All diodes have some reverse current, I think. But it's
small.
One-way conversions are identified with a question like: "If this were
Russia, which way would the machine guns be pointing?" For the Wall,
the guns point toward the people wanting freedom. People have
historically been machine-gunned for wanting to convert from slavery
to freedom. They do not shoot people going the other way. A
comparable question: "In Saigon, what planes was everyone pushing to
get on--the ones headed toward freedom or the ones headed into
Communist areas?" Or "Which way do boat people go?"
When you can relate these questions to music, calculators, operating
systems, editors, programming languages, art, and whatnot, you are on
the road to discovering the end-point, the final destination, that the
impartial conversion process indicates is a nice place to be.
So ask yourself, "If they had machine guns at college bookstores,
would they be shooting the people giving up their algebraic machines
and buying RPNs, or would they be shooting the people doing the
opposite?"
This process of observing life's one-way conversions is the closest
you'll get (barring religion) to finding absolute answers to life's
tough questions like "Is this good art?", "Is Beethoven better than
Elvis?" What we all want is the answer that an impartial jury could
render (say, a team made of Martians and Spock and a few Antareans).
If you had this jury, you would have them examine all calculators and
all kinds of calculations, and make a suggestion. Failing such an
impartial panel, observe life's one-way conversions.
--
================
Eben R.S. Visher, {sun.com!sacto,uunet}!mmsac!eben, (916) 441-8137falk@sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) (11/23/89)
In article <2591@helios.mmsac.UUCP>, eben@mmsac.UUCP (Eben R.S. Visher) writes: > The replies to the calculator question are confusing to me. Life's > one way conversions provide the answer. > > If you need a calculator for supporting bookshelves, you use HP, obviously. > > If you need to do lots of real work, you use RPN, obviously. > > Anyone familiar with HP or RPN understands. Anyone else won't, but so > what? The same is true with Unix and VMS. Or Unix and DOS. Or sex > and bashing your head against a wall. In all cases, there is > essentially a one-way conversion process (from one state to the other) > with very little back-flow. Or qwerty and dvorak. The army did a test once to see if qwerty typists could be converted to dvorak and would that improve their effeciency. The answers to both questions were yes, but the army abandoned the experiment. It seems that the converted typists refused to go back. I liked your article. Many truths. Both the U.S. and Russia have notoriously vicious border control. In Russia it's to keep people in, in the U.S. it's to keep people out. -- -ed falk, sun microsystems, sun!falk, falk@corp.sun.com "If you wrapped yourself in the flag like George Bush does, you'd be worried about flag-burning too"
zaphod@madnix.UUCP (Ron Bean) (11/26/89)
>Ignore everyone who has not been solidly in each camp at one point in >his life, since he is missing an essential perspective. Also ignore >the strange people who comprise the reverse current (the people who >willingly switch from ten-speeds to one-speeds, Unix to VMS, sex to >abstinence, RPN to algebraic, C to FORTRAN, freedom to Communism, and >so on). All diodes have some reverse current, I think. But it's >small. But don't ignore the possibility that you might be one of those "strange people who comprise the reverse current"-- unless you like letting other people make your decisions for you. (side note: many people who switched from ten-speeds to one-speeds went back to ten-speeds-- but they kept the balloon tires, flat handlebars, reinforced frames, etc, which were the reason they switched in the first place).
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (11/28/89)
[ Algebraic to RPN is a one-way conversion ] Not for me. I have an HP calculator, but I'm ruined for RPN. After all that Forth programming a 4-element stack just doesn't do it. And eventually Forth doesn't do it either. Algebraic -> RPN -> Forth -> Infix. And we're back where we started from. It's called maturity. And when you get old and grey and your retirement is getting close, maybe that contraflow starts looking better and better. -- `-_-' Peter da Silva <peter@ficc.uu.net> <peter@sugar.lonestar.org>. 'U` -------------- +1 713 274 5180. "The basic notion underlying USENET is the flame." -- Chuq Von Rospach, chuq@Apple.COM
jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (James Webster Birdsall) (11/28/89)
In article <7123@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >[ Algebraic to RPN is a one-way conversion ] >Not for me. I have an HP calculator, but I'm ruined for RPN. After all that >Forth programming a 4-element stack just doesn't do it. Buy an HP-28S. In the user's manual they recommend that you not have more than several hundred things on the stack at one time. -- James W. Birdsall jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU jwbirdsa@pucc.BITNET ...allegra!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa Compu$erve: 71261,1731 "For it is the doom of men that they forget." -- Merlin
firth@fps.com (John Firth) (11/29/89)
In article <7123@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >[ Algebraic to RPN is a one-way conversion ] > >Not for me. I have an HP calculator, but I'm ruined for RPN. After all that >Forth programming a 4-element stack just doesn't do it. And eventually Forth >doesn't do it either. > It seems to me (hater 4-element stacks without the benefit of a forth background) that all you need is exposure to the new! improved! HP. Testimonial: I was a humble student ever losing important figures foolishly off the end of my HP-16 stack until the HP-41 came into my life. Now I am a new man. I can have a huge stack (up to 32k, I suppose) encompassing real and complex numbers, matrices, vectors, etc. I believe this should convert anyone to the wonderful world of RPN without those nasty 4-element stacks. Oh, BTW, mine was a gift; the pice does humble my simple student income. John
frank@zen.co.uk (Frank Wales) (12/02/89)
In article <7123@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >[ Algebraic to RPN is a one-way conversion ] > >Not for me. I have an HP calculator, but I'm ruined for RPN. After all that >Forth programming a 4-element stack just doesn't do it. And eventually Forth >doesn't do it either. > >Algebraic -> RPN -> Forth -> Infix. And we're back where we started from. Well...some RPN machines from HP these days have unbounded stacks. Besides, the infix you end up with is more useable that the Algebraic calculator behaviour you started with. It's the visibility of the stack, as much as the consistency of the postfix entry scheme, which makes RPN the better system for *calculators*. (And hey! Isn't that what we're talking about here?) In article <4440@celit.fps.com> firth@fps.com (John Firth) writes: >Testimonial: I was a humble student ever losing important figures >foolishly off the end of my HP-16 stack until the HP-41 came into my >life. Now I am a new man. I can have a huge stack (up to 32k, I >suppose) encompassing real and complex numbers, matrices, vectors, >etc. Er, don't you mean HP-28S? That's the only machine which fits that bill. -- Frank Wales, Systems Manager, [frank@zen.co.uk<->mcvax!zen.co.uk!frank] Zengrange Ltd., Greenfield Rd., Leeds, ENGLAND, LS9 8DB. (+44) 532 489048 x217
jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) (12/03/89)
In article <2053@zen.co.uk> frank@zen.co.uk (Frank Wales) writes: >Well...some RPN machines from HP these days have unbounded stacks. Besides, How do they fit it into a finite box? :-) -- Richard Kennaway SYS, University of East Anglia, Norwich, U.K. Internet: kennaway@sys.uea.ac.uk uucp: ...mcvax!ukc!uea-sys!jrk
cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (12/06/89)
In article <1022@sys.uea.ac.uk>, jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) writes: > In article <2053@zen.co.uk> frank@zen.co.uk (Frank Wales) writes: > >Well...some RPN machines from HP these days have unbounded stacks. Besides, > > How do they fit it into a finite box? > :-) > > Richard Kennaway SYS, University of East Anglia, Norwich, U.K. Even more important -- how do they fit it into a finite universe? :-) -- Clayton E. Cramer {pyramid,pixar,tekbspa}!optilink!cramer My definition of social justice: those who refuse to work deserve to go hungry. =============================================================================== Disclaimer? You must be kidding! No company would hold opinions like mine!