malloy@nprdc.arpa (Sean Malloy) (12/23/89)
In article <9375@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >Keyboards *are* hard to learn. Most people take a long time to learn >to type with acceptable speed and accuracy. But at least the keys that >are of different type from the others (such as shift, control, etc.) do >have distinctive shapes and locations, and all the keys have clear >labels as to their function. (The right lower corner is a distinctive >location; where the "h" and "t" keys are is not.) It is to laugh. A single counterexample to disprove your premise: IBM PS/2-80 keyboard +-----------++---++---+ | Caps Lock || A || S | +-----------++---++---+ +-------------++---++---+ | Shift || Z || X | +-------------++---++---+ +-----------+ +------+ | Control | | Alt | +-----------+ +------+ Northgate OmniKey/102 keyboard +-----------++---++---+ | Control || A || S | +-----------++---++---+ +-------------++---++---+ | Shift || Z || X | +-------------++---++---+ +-----------+ +------+ | Alt | |CapsLk| +-----------+ +------+ Now, the keyboard for my Sun at work has the same Control and Shift keys as the OmniKey, but the Caps Lock key is where the Alt key is, and the key that was the Caps Lock key is an odd function I haven't figured out yet. Not to mention that the '~' / '`' and '|' / '\' keys are in different places, along with the <ESC> key, on all three keyboards. I have to fall back to hunt-and-peck whenever I have to use the PS/2 keyboard -- at least I have enough experience with the Sun and OmniKey keyboards to be able to make the switch between them. Except for the fact that the <DEL> key on the Sun keyboard is where the <BACKSPACE> key is on the OmniKey -- the <BACKSPACE> key on the Sun keyboard is two rows higher. Keyboards standardized? Joke on! Sean Malloy | "The Crystal Wind is the Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | Storm, and the Storm is Data, San Diego, CA 92152-6800 | and the Data is Life." malloy@nprdc.navy.mil | -- _Emerald Eyes_, D.K. Moran
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (12/24/89)
In article <9375@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >>Keyboards *are* hard to learn. Most people take a long time to learn >>to type with acceptable speed and accuracy. But at least the keys that >>are of different type from the others (such as shift, control, etc.) do >>have distinctive shapes and locations, and all the keys have clear >>labels as to their function. In article <5215@skinner.nprdc.arpa> malloy@nprdc.arpa (Sean Malloy) writes: >It is to laugh. A single counterexample to disprove your premise: > >[proves he has nothing better to do than draw keyboards with ASCII] > >Now, the keyboard for my Sun at work has the same Control and Shift >keys as the OmniKey, but the Caps Lock key is where the Alt key is, >and the key that was the Caps Lock key is an odd function I haven't >figured out yet. Not to mention that the '~' / '`' and '|' / '\' keys >are in different places, along with the <ESC> key, on all three >keyboards. I have to fall back to hunt-and-peck whenever I have to use >the PS/2 keyboard -- at least I have enough experience with the Sun >and OmniKey keyboards to be able to make the switch between them. > >Keyboards standardized? Joke on! Who ever said that keyboards were standardized? You are bashing a straw man. All you've done is *proven* my assertion -- that keyboards are hard to learn. Even going from one to another is hard, to say nothing of learning them in the first place. And please refrain from blatantly misrepresenting people's arguments. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com "Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion." - Blake, "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
amull@Morgan.COM (Andrew P. Mullhaupt) (12/25/89)
In article <9386@hoptoad.uucp>, tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) writes: > In article <9375@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: > >>Keyboards *are* hard to learn. Most people take a long time to learn > >>to type with acceptable speed and accuracy. But at least the keys that > >>are of different type from the others (such as shift, control, etc.) do > >>have distinctive shapes and locations, and all the keys have clear > >>labels as to their function. > > > Who ever said that keyboards were standardized? You are bashing a > straw man. All you've done is *proven* my assertion -- that keyboards > are hard to learn. Even going from one to another is hard, to say > nothing of learning them in the first place. > Well learning a mouse is impossible from the 'touch typing' point of view, because even if the idea of parking the rat in a 'home' position on the pad occurs to you, the windowing software wants the position of the mouse to indicate the active window. You can try picking up the mouse and putting it in its 'garage' but this uses a set of muscles not intended by the ergonomic designers of the mouse; they're not made to be easily lifted. Now if somebody used a mouse button for 'ignore motion', you'd get this effect, but this is only a poor imitation. You'd have to actively return the mouse to 'home' after most mouse-strokes, which significantly increases the annoyance of using it. Some GUI's pretend that mouse strokes and clicks provide a rich enough interface for most interaction. Unless you draw pictures all day, I'd guess this is false. It is a simple truth of coding theory that the keyboard with its far higher number of rapidly available distinct inputs than a mouse is a broader channel for interaction, perhaps excepting the case where pixel by pixel differentiation is useful. (I.e. drawing). Anyone who has used the Logitech 'Point' editor on the IBM PC can testify how trying to load up the mouse with lots of signals --(three keys, chords, mouse direction strokes, screen region commands, as well as 'point and shoot' box and button clicks. Yikes! It even remaps the keyboard differently based on whether the mouse is detected or not! If anyone wants to know how NOT to build a user interface - get this product!)-- leads to an overwhelming desire to not use the rat. Mercifully, some environments like 'SunView' are really just a bunch of keyboard oriented windows on screen at the same time; so the rat is not essential in all GUI's. On the other hand, if what you need is input of planar x,y coordinates with medium resolution, then the mouse can be useful. That same Logitech mouse interface product (with only up - down, right - left, and each of three buttons mapped to single keystrokes,) adds some value to Lotus Manuscript's previewing screen, where a variable magnification box is dragged around a page of previewed text. This accounts for about 5% of your time using the product, though, and Lotus probably made the right choice leaving the mouse out of their product since there was no single standard mouse interface they could expect on the IBM PC. I think for reasons of speed and comfort, the mouse is a poor substitute for a command line with a nice command recall/editing feature. It is not easy to use it without looking for it after you've gone to the keyboard and vice versa. Trackballs fixed to the keyboards can alleviate some of this problem, but the actions needed to push a mouse or roll a trackball are tiring compared to using a good keyboard, mostly due to the intermittent moving the hand to and from the keyboard. If you're like me and most of your input to the computer is text, then a pointing device, and an environment tailored to one is a waste of time. The only parts I read in the GUI manuals these days are the parts relevant to the possible of escape from them. Later, Andrew Mullhaupt
rwilson@uvicctr.UVic.CA.UUCP (Richard Wilson) (12/30/89)
As a co-worker of mine puts it, you need 3 buttons on your mouse. Left, Right, and Fire! (-: Rich