leeja@motcid.UUCP (James B. Lee) (07/13/90)
I am looking for information on programming Nintendo's. Any help would be appreciated. Please e-mail. Thanks in advance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- James Lee ..!uunet!motcid!leeja Motorola Cellular | 1501 W. Shure Dr. | "There is no coming to consciousness Arlington Heights, IL 60004 | without pain." (708) 632-6964 | -- Carl Jung
kenl@telxon.uucp (Ken K. Lambach) (07/14/90)
I would also be interested in this. Please either include me in the mailings or post. Thanks. * Ken Lambach * Telxon Corp Akron, Ohio * uunet!telxon!kenl
bianco@cs.odu.edu (David J. Bianco) (07/17/90)
If you are really interested, Prodigy [hey, was that a snicker?! 8) ] has a discussion on this just starting in their programming board. One lady said she pulled out the guts and saw a 6502 as the CPU, but not having a Nintendo, I really couldnt say if thats true. Anyway, she and some others are working on debuggers (seperatly).
kurt@tc.fluke.COM (Kurt Guntheroth) (07/17/90)
1. Yes, the Nintendo is a 6502. There was an article in Byte about 18 months ago comparing the Nintendo, Sega, and another (NEC?) system in terms of processor, graphics modes, etc. 2. The Nintendo features an unusual connection between the game cartridge and the system. It is patented, and Nintendo has been vigorous about defending its patent rights. They use this to effectively limit competition in the lucretive software game, and to discourage everybody with a ROM blaster from making copies like they did with Atari cartridges. Although Nintendo permits third parties to develop software, the hefty licensing fee they charge for use of their connection has discouraged pretty much everybody. There was a lawsuit brought by Atari to force them to lower their license fees, but I don't know its status. I wouldn't consider a career writing games for the nintendo unless I wanted to move to Japan and work for them; something which Americans usually find unenjoyable.
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (07/18/90)
In article <BIANCO.90Jul16170025@dew.cs.odu.edu> bianco@cs.odu.edu (David J. Bianco) writes: >One lady said she pulled out the guts and saw a 6502 as the CPU, but not >having a Nintendo, I really couldnt say if thats true. Anyway, she and some >others are working on debuggers (seperatly). Nintendos are apparently _almost_ 6502 powered, which would make sense, since at the time (and still, thanks to Nintendo), 6502 assembler was pretty much the universal language of video game writers. In any case, to avoid paying any royalties to Commodore Semiconductor Group (formerly MOS Technology), the CPU in these boxes is a 6502-ish critter with the appropriate patented sections hacked out. So there are very likely a few 6502 opcodes that don't op anymore. I haven't looking inside a Nintendo, but I would be surprised if the CPU is obviously a 6502; more likely, it's part of a larger chip. If not, it's about time for a Nintendo-CR. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "I have been given the freedom to do as I see fit" -REM
bianco@cs.odu.edu (David J. Bianco) (07/18/90)
In article <13264@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
Nintendos are apparently _almost_ 6502 powered, which would make sense, since
at the time (and still, thanks to Nintendo), 6502 assembler was pretty much
the universal language of video game writers. In any case, to avoid paying
any royalties to Commodore Semiconductor Group (formerly MOS Technology),
the CPU in these boxes is a 6502-ish critter with the appropriate patented
sections hacked out. So there are very likely a few 6502 opcodes that don't
op anymore. I haven't looking inside a Nintendo, but I would be surprised
if the CPU is obviously a 6502; more likely, it's part of a larger chip. If
not, it's about time for a Nintendo-CR.
Almost a 6502? Which parts are patented and which arent? As for whether there
is actually a little 6502 sitting on the board or not I dont know, but now
you've piqued my interest! I guess I'll just *have* to find out now 8)ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) (07/23/90)
In <13264@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <BIANCO.90Jul16170025@dew.cs.odu.edu> bianco@cs.odu.edu (David J. Bianco) writes: >Nintendos are apparently _almost_ 6502 powered, which would make sense, since >at the time (and still, thanks to Nintendo), 6502 assembler was pretty much >the universal language of video game writers. In any case, to avoid paying >any royalties to Commodore Semiconductor Group (formerly MOS Technology), >the CPU in these boxes is a 6502-ish critter with the appropriate patented >sections hacked out. Royalties? On a CPU? Well, I won't quibble with your buzzwords, but it's difficult to see how using a proprietary CPU could be less expensive than buying an existing chip, even if you have to buy it from your competitors. *Especially* the 6502, whose main appeal is its price. I seem to recall a story that the Apple I was 6502-based because they couldn't afford 8008s! On the other hand, Nintendo might've come up with a chip of their own just because they thought they could do a better job (I dunno about hardware, but it's often a motive in software -- too often the *main* motive) but stuck with the 6502 instruction set because that's what they knew. -- ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch atina!pyramid!apple!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA uunet!mimsy!ames!claris!netcom!ergo "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know!" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
brian@motcsd.csd.mot.com (Brian Smithson) (07/23/90)
>In <13264@cbmvax.commodore.com> (Dave Haynie) writes: >On the other hand, Nintendo might've come up with a chip of their own >just because they thought they could do a better job (I dunno about >hardware, but it's often a motive in software -- too often the *main* >motive) but stuck with the 6502 instruction set because that's what >they knew. If Nintendo does indeed have a proprietary CPU based on the 6502, I'd bet that they did it to make it difficult to pirate the Nintendo game unit. Imagine the problem for Nintendo if clones started appearing in the marketplace! They may also have done it in order to make it difficult to develop game cartridges without Nintendo's blessings. --- -Brian Smithson, Manager, ISV Engineering Motorola Inc., Computer Group, Computer Systems Division 10700 N. De Anza Boulevard, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA, (408)366-4104 brian@csd.mot.com, {apple | pyramid}!motcsd!brian
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (07/24/90)
In article <12577@netcom.UUCP> ergo@netcom.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) writes: >Royalties? On a CPU? Well, whatever you call "payment in exchange for the licensing of a patent". In that, if they put a 6502 design in one of their machine's custom chips, without changing that 6502 design, they have to pay for the use of the 6502 patents. >but it's difficult to see how using a proprietary CPU could be less >expensive than buying an existing chip, even if you have to buy it from >your competitors. *Especially* the 6502, whose main appeal is its price. >I seem to recall a story that the Apple I was 6502-based because they >couldn't afford 8008s! This is the 90s (ok, so the Nintendo was made in the 80s), and the Apple II was made in the 70s. Back then, you couldn't just go out and build yourself a custom chip, unless you owned your own chip foundry. Nowadays, the 6502 is part of several standard cell libraries, along with various other 8-bit CPU-type things. If you're trying to build a video game to sell at $100, you likely can't afford separate packaging of too many ICs, or you won't have any profit margin left. The inside of the chip, at least in volumes from 100K per year or so, are virtually free, at least for low speed things like 6502s. Most 65xx family parts go for under a buck these days in single quantity. You pay for the plastic and metal that houses the chip. >ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch >atina!pyramid!apple!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA >uunet!mimsy!ames!claris!netcom!ergo -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy The Dave Haynie branch of the New Zealand Fan Club