RSanders@USGS2-MULTICS.ARPA (11/30/84)
Rumour of unknown quality: DEC won't have Ultrix running on the VAX 8600 for at least 1 year. Can anyone comment on this? What about the supposedly standard VAX architechture? -- Rex
avolio@grendel.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio) (12/01/84)
> > Rumour of unknown quality: DEC won't have Ultrix running on the VAX > 8600 for at least 1 year. Can anyone comment on this? What about the > supposedly standard VAX architechture? My understanding -- not speaking officially, you understand -- is 6 months to availability. (The architecture is standard and Ultrix-32 will run on it.) -- Fred Avolio, DEC -- U{LTR,N}IX Support 301/731-4100 x4227 UUCP: {seismo,decvax}!grendel!avolio ARPA: grendel!avolio@seismo.ARPA
grandi@noao.UUCP (Steve Grandi) (12/03/84)
> > Rumour of unknown quality: DEC won't have Ultrix running on the VAX > > 8600 for at least 1 year. Can anyone comment on this? What about the > > supposedly standard VAX architechture? > > My understanding -- not speaking officially, you understand -- is 6 months > to availability. (The architecture is standard and Ultrix-32 will run on > it.) > -- > Fred Avolio, DEC -- U{LTR,N}IX Support Since the 8600 is being sold initially ONLY as a package with VAXcluster hardware (a HSC50 that talks to RA disks and TA78 tapes), DEC will have to write drivers and such for this hardware before Ultrix will be usable. You could run an 8600 with traditional massbuss and unibus disks and tapes, but DEC isn't selling them that way for a while. Forced to learn VMS for our 8600---- -- Steve Grandi, National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ UUCP: {allegra,arizona,astrovax,decvax,hao,ihnp4,seismo,lbl-csam} !noao!grandi Arpa: noao!grandi@lbl-csam
guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (12/04/84)
> > > > Rumour of unknown quality: DEC won't have Ultrix running on the VAX > > 8600 for at least 1 year. Can anyone comment on this? What about the > > supposedly standard VAX architechture? > > My understanding -- not speaking officially, you understand -- is 6 months > to availability. (The architecture is standard and Ultrix-32 will run on > it.) "Standard" depends on where you look. There are a lot of things that the OS has to depend on that are *not* standardized in the VAX Architectural Manual. The I/O subsystem differs a bit between models; f'rinstance, UNIBUS interrupts are handled quite a bit differently between the 780 and the 750/730. Therefore, the architecture may be standardized but it still can take 6 months to get UNIX (or VMS, for that matter) running on a new implementation. (If it takes much longer than that, have a nice long talk with the implementors...) Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy
avie@cmu-cs-pt.ARPA (Avadis Tevanian) (12/04/84)
I may not have all my facts totally correct, but here goes anyway. Running Unix (or Ultrix) on a 8600 is not as simple as just writing a simple device driver to talk to the CI. Remember that the CI is this "intelligent" device that lets a Vax cpu talk to it at a very high level. It is my understanding that VMS actually gives "filenames" to the CI to be processed. Unfortunately, there are two problems. The first is that Unix file names don't look like VMS file names. The second is that information about the CI is hard to come by. The second problem is not a problem for Ultrix, but rather for anyone else who wants to attempt to bring up Unix with a CI. The first problem is a tough one. Either you write something to translate Unix file names to VMS names (and vice versa), or you microcode the CI to understand Unix file names. Either solution is non-trivial. I will be surprised if Ultrix is available in the near future (< 1 year) on the 8600 (personal opinion). The *real* problem, of course, is that you can only get the 8600 with the CI. Avie
kaiser%jaws.dec-marlboro.arpa@BRL-AOS.ARPA (12/09/84)
>Fred Avolio, DEC -- U{LTR,N}IX Support: > >> Rumour of unknown quality: DEC won't have Ultrix running on the VAX >> 8600 for at least 1 year. Can anyone comment on this? What about the >> supposedly standard VAX architechture? > >My understanding -- not speaking officially, you understand -- is 6 months >to availability. (The architecture is standard and Ultrix-32 will run on >it.) You may be interested in some broad details about what happens in Digital in getting a product into the field. This is relevant to the question of when ULTRIX-32 will be shipped to customers for the VAX 8600. Suppose a new model VAX is built. Before it can be released to be sold as a supported product -- "supported" is a key term -- the creators must satisfy a substantial list of requirements in testing it. These requirements occupy large documents, and if anything, they're very conservative. For instance, a new VAX processor must successfully execute a known test suite consisting partly of an extremely large number of test passes of every instruction. There must be diagnostics that can be demonstrated to diagnose properly. The physical machinery in its final packaging must pass tests for the emission of noise and radiation, operation in a given temperature range, and even (for example) how far it may be tilted before it falls over. I mention all this in the context of hardware because it seems to me simpler to visualize with respect to hardware. However, software also must pass such tests, in its universe, in order to be supported -- i.e., releasable to customers at large. The coding and documen- tation must meet certain standards. There must be test procedures which demonstrably exercise the software properly. It must be shown to be main- tainable at certain levels of effort. It must be appropriately packaged in terms of physical distribution, installability, and consistency. Responsible persons must sign their names to the effect that requirements are met, and this is not just pro forma. And finally the developers must submit their baby to an independent certifying body, which always, so far as I know, takes at least a month (for the smallest products) to check that all requirements have been met. I dare say none of this is unusual for a major manufacturer of software. Is it? In more immediate terms, it means that the question "when will ULTRIX-32 run on the VAX 8600" may not be what you want to know. You probably want to know when it will be available for sale; i.e., when it will be a supported product. It may already run. ---Pete kaiser%jaws.dec@decwrl.arpa, kaiser%belker.dec@decwrl.arpa {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-jaws!kaiser