penneyj@servio.UUCP (D. Jason Penney) (03/21/90)
In article <674@sagpd1.UUCP> jharkins@sagpd1.UUCP (Jim Harkins) writes: [snip] >I realized that, while Dvorak was far superior (possible religious war warning) >as long as the rest of the world used qwerty I probably should too. So >think about it. If you try to switch daily between the 2 keyboard layouts >you won't be very good at either. Unless you're either willing to convert >every keyboard you use, or only use 1 keyboard day in and day out, it's not >worth the hassle. > >Now, if anyone wants to start a movement we replace qwerty with Dvorak..... I beg to differ; I use both qwerty and dvorak at work. It's true there was a terrible moment of truth (about 40 hours into learning dvorak) where I couldn't touch type EITHER keyboard -- cognitive disruption! It went away with about another 10 hours of practice. I too am a dvorak fan. I have dvorak drivers for the IBM PC and all Suns. I also have a learning program that currently runs on the IBM PC -- perhaps I'll get around converting the MS Basic to curses C sometime :-). If you are interested in this software, contact my KISS server. Route mail to penneyj@slc.com, and use jason-archive-request for the subject. If your return address is peculiar (not domain based), your first line should be, path from-me-to-you (I connect to uunet and ogicse directly). "send help" and "send index" are good for starters if you're not familiar with kiss. Otherwise, here's the current contents of my dvorak subdirectory: total 282 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 56762 Mar 5 09:50 Part01 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 56302 Mar 5 09:50 Part02 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 53038 Mar 5 09:50 Part03 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 49691 Mar 5 09:50 Part04 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 32318 Mar 5 09:50 Part05 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 31238 Mar 5 09:50 Part06 -rw-r--r-- 1 penneyj 6416 Mar 19 17:10 dvorak.sun Parts 1 through 6 contain the IBM keyboard driver and the learning program. Don't worry; the bulk of the learning program is the test data. The keyboard driver allows you to switch between layouts, even while any other program is running. dvorak.sun is the trivial program to change the Sun console between Dvorak and Qwerty. I am also interested in public domain Dvorak driver software for other hosts. It's best if it allows people to switch dynamically -- Qwerty will NEVER go away. Sigh. -- D. Jason Penney Ph: (503) 629-8383 Beaverton, OR 97006 uucp: ...uunet!servio!penneyj (penneyj@slc.com) "Computers are useless; they can only give answers" -- Picasso
greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) (11/10/90)
I'm looking for anywhere I can get a Dvorak keyboard for my 386. If
anyone knows any manufacturers or sellers of them, please let me know.
Also, PC Mag (or someone) did a review of some different keyboards
awhile ago. Is there anyone out there would mind sending me a copy??
I'm very interested in getting a keyboard with a different (read:
faster, better) layout.
Thanks...
Greg
----
Greg Montgomery | Montgomery Consultants, Inc. | Atlanta, Georgia
Internet: greg@turbo.atl.ga.us | Home of the '96
UUCP: {rutgers,ogcise,gatech}!emory!turbo!greg | Olympics!herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (11/13/90)
In article <muLes1w163w@turbo.atl.ga.us>, greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) writes: > I'm looking for anywhere I can get a Dvorak keyboard for my 386. If > anyone knows any manufacturers or sellers of them, please let me know. > Also, PC Mag (or someone) did a review of some different keyboards > awhile ago. Is there anyone out there would mind sending me a copy?? > I'm very interested in getting a keyboard with a different (read: > faster, better) layout. I think Jerry Pournelle said that Northgate has one. All it takes is a different set of molded keytops. (I don't understand why Jerry likes the Northgate keyboards so much. I bot one and it doubles keys on me and does not have N-Key Rollover.) If you don't have to have the names of the keys engraved on the keytops, PC-Write lets you remap the keyboard. So do various other programs. Hang a picture of the key layout on the wall and do the remapping in software. dan herrick > > Thanks... > > Greg > > ---- > Greg Montgomery | Montgomery Consultants, Inc. | Atlanta, Georgia > Internet: greg@turbo.atl.ga.us | Home of the '96 > UUCP: {rutgers,ogcise,gatech}!emory!turbo!greg | Olympics!
ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Ed Russell) (11/13/90)
In response to: >From: greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) >Subject: Dvorak keyboard >Date: 10 Nov 90 04:47:57 GMT > >I'm looking for anywhere I can get a Dvorak keyboard for my 386. If >anyone knows any manufacturers or sellers of them, please let me know. >Also, PC Mag (or someone) did a review of some different keyboards >awhile ago. Is there anyone out there would mind sending me a copy?? >I'm very interested in getting a keyboard with a different (read: >faster, better) layout. I have a Northgate 102. One of the switch settings is to configure it as a Dvorak keyboard. Key caps are available for a nominal fee. I assume the other Northgate models have the same capability(?).
Markd@Aus.Sun.COM (11/13/90)
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes: >In article <muLes1w163w@turbo.atl.ga.us>, greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) writes: >> I'm looking for anywhere I can get a Dvorak keyboard for my 386. If >> anyone knows any manufacturers or sellers of them, please let me know. >I think Jerry Pournelle said that Northgate has one. All it takes is >a different set of molded keytops. (I don't understand why Jerry >likes the Northgate keyboards so much. I bot one and it doubles keys >on me and does not have N-Key Rollover.) >If you don't have to have the names of the keys engraved on the >keytops, PC-Write lets you remap the keyboard. So do various >other programs. Hang a picture of the key layout on the wall >and do the remapping in software. You don't mention which OS you're using but if it's UNIX/XENIX, there are a variety of trivial ways to remap keystrokes. In Xenix there is a keymap file and for Unix you could write a fairly trivial filter. You also may find that your keyboard lets you move the keys around by gentle prying individual keys off. But check the actual method with your keyboard manufacturer first, OK? ------------ ----------------- -------------------- Mark Delany markd@Aus.Sun.COM ...!sun!sunaus!markd ------------ ----------------- --------------------
rmf@bpdsun1.uucp (Rob Finley) (11/14/90)
In article <markd.658483813@sunchat> Markd@Aus.Sun.COM writes: >herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes: > >>In article <muLes1w163w@turbo.atl.ga.us>, greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) writes: >>> I'm looking for anywhere I can get a Dvorak keyboard for my 386. If >>> anyone knows any manufacturers or sellers of them, please let me know. > >>I think Jerry Pournelle said that Northgate has one. All it takes is >>a different set of molded keytops. (I don't understand why Jerry >>likes the Northgate keyboards so much. I bot one and it doubles keys >>on me and does not have N-Key Rollover.) > >>If you don't have to have the names of the keys engraved on the >>keytops, PC-Write lets you remap the keyboard. So do various >>other programs. Hang a picture of the key layout on the wall >>and do the remapping in software. > >You don't mention which OS you're using but if it's UNIX/XENIX, there >are a variety of trivial ways to remap keystrokes. In Xenix there is a >keymap file and for Unix you could write a fairly trivial filter. > >You also may find that your keyboard lets you move the keys around by >gentle prying individual keys off. But check the actual method with >your keyboard manufacturer first, OK? My only hangup with that is the keycaps are beveled to match which row they are in originally. If you move them, the keycaps are slanted the wrong way and it feels awkward. Before you move the caps around (or take them all off B-), check to see if they all have the same physical shape. Fortunately, Northgate fixed it in almost the correct way by offering an alternate set of keycaps. Make sure that you can live with Northgate's lack of N-key rollover if you are a wild typist. You will go blind if you are and it doesn't. Keytronics used to make a keyboard that was born Dvorak but I don`t know if it follows the PS/2 format for fkeys and such. If that doesn't work. Get a Sun. B-) B-) B-) Keytronics made all the keycaps the same shape. Nope. Don't work for Sun. Now work for Harris. Not Sun. I do call this machine bpdsun1 though. Not sure why. quintro!bpdsun1!rmf@lll-winken.llnl.gov uunet!tiamat!quintro!bpdsun1!rmf
hitz@auspex.auspex.com (Dave Hitz) (11/14/90)
In article <90316.120552ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Ed Russell) writes: >I have a Northgate 102. One of the switch settings is to configure it as >a Dvorak keyboard. Key caps are available for a nominal fee. I assume >the other Northgate models have the same capability(?). The print articles I remember seeing about the Dvorak keyboard have included pictures showing a keyboard that not only has different letters on different keys than qwertyiop, but actually has keys arranged so that they fit differently under the fingers. (I believe that there were more keys around the thumbs, so that those dextrous members could do something besides type SPACE.) But in netnews articles I always see people saying things like, "I turned my keyboard to Dvorak by hacking the tty driver in the kernel to ..." Is my memory wrong about the Dvorak keyboard, or have some clever people actually figured out how to make the kernel tty driver (or in this case a switch setting) move the plastic keys around on the keyboard? -- Dave Hitz work: 408-492-0900 UUCP: {uunet,mips,sun,bridge2}!auspex!hitz home: 408-739-7116
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (11/14/90)
In article <4360@auspex.auspex.com>, hitz@auspex.auspex.com (Dave Hitz) writes: > In article <90316.120552ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Ed Russell) writes: >>I have a Northgate 102. One of the switch settings is to configure it as >>a Dvorak keyboard. Key caps are available for a nominal fee. I assume >>the other Northgate models have the same capability(?). > > The print articles I remember seeing about the Dvorak keyboard have > included pictures showing a keyboard that not only has different > letters on different keys than qwertyiop, but actually has keys > arranged so that they fit differently under the fingers. (I believe > that there were more keys around the thumbs, so that those dextrous > members could do something besides type SPACE.) > I have done a little reading on this subject, even communicating once with the Dvorak Association, but have never seen anything about a mechanical rearrangement of the keyboard. I think users of Dvorak's technology are willing to have the rest of us pay for the mechanical development of keyboards and only make a more intelligent assignment of characters to the available buttons. I'm also quite sure that is what Dvorak did in his original work. > But in netnews articles I always see people saying things like, "I > turned my keyboard to Dvorak by hacking the tty driver in the kernel > to ..." > > Is my memory wrong about the Dvorak keyboard, or have some clever > people actually figured out how to make the kernel tty driver (or in > this case a switch setting) move the plastic keys around on the > keyboard? There are mechanical hackers, just like there are programming hackers, and the author of a magazine article who does his job right should be able to find one or two and show their work in an article about mutilating the keyboard to make typing English easier and faster. I believe the Dvorak Association uses the name Dvorak Keyboard to mean a rearrangement of the labels on the traditional keyboard. > -- > Dave Hitz work: 408-492-0900 > UUCP: {uunet,mips,sun,bridge2}!auspex!hitz home: 408-739-7116 dan herrick herrickd@astro.pc.ab.com
greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) (11/15/90)
hitz@auspex.auspex.com (Dave Hitz) writes: > But in netnews articles I always see people saying things like, "I > turned my keyboard to Dvorak by hacking the tty driver in the kernel > to ..." > > Is my memory wrong about the Dvorak keyboard, or have some clever > people actually figured out how to make the kernel tty driver (or in > this case a switch setting) move the plastic keys around on the > keyboard? > -- > Dave Hitz work: 408-492-0900 > UUCP: {uunet,mips,sun,bridge2}!auspex!hitz home: 408-739-7116 It is possible to do that by software. Someone (penneyj@slc.com) sent me a driver in 8086 asm do switch between Dvorak and QWERTY by hitting a hot-key. If anyone would like a copy of how to get this from his archive server, let me know and I will post the form letter he sent me... P.S. - Thanks to everyone who responded to my article. It seems my two choices are to talk to Northgate about getting some keycaps or use the driver I have now. ---- Greg Montgomery | Montgomery Consultants, Inc. | Atlanta, Georgia Internet: greg@turbo.atl.ga.us | Home of the '96 UUCP: {rutgers,ogcise,gatech}!emory!turbo!greg | Olympics!
efrethei@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Erik J. Fretheim) (11/15/90)
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes: >In article <4360@auspex.auspex.com>, hitz@auspex.auspex.com (Dave Hitz) writes: >> In article <90316.120552ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Ed Russell) writes: >>>I have a Northgate 102. One of the switch settings is to configure it as >>>a Dvorak keyboard. Key caps are available for a nominal fee. I assume >>>the other Northgate models have the same capability(?). >> >> The print articles I remember seeing about the Dvorak keyboard have >> included pictures showing a keyboard that not only has different >> letters on different keys than qwertyiop, but actually has keys >> arranged so that they fit differently under the fingers. (I believe >> that there were more keys around the thumbs, so that those dextrous >> members could do something besides type SPACE.) >> Ah - but what's the point any way. Kinkead calculated that based on the mechanical abilities of the typist a Dvorak keyboard will only give a speed up of about 2.6%. (Card and Moran. "An Engineering Model of Human Performance" in Handbook of Perception and Human Performance, Vol II. ed. Boff, Kaufman and Thomas. Wiley: New York, 1986. p45-18.) Just ain't worth the effort for so little gain, better to practice on what you've got. blank space so the article won't get eaten. . -- -- Erik J Fretheim efrethei@afit.af.mil AFIT/ENA Box 4151 (ATTN: CPT FRETHEIM) (513)255-5276 AVN785-5276 WPAFB, OH 45431 USA
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) (11/15/90)
What's wrong with remapping it in software and swapping the keytops around? -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' +1 713 274 5180. 'U` peter@ferranti.com
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (11/16/90)
In article <1742@blackbird.afit.af.mil>, efrethei@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Erik J. Fretheim) writes: > herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes: > >>In article <4360@auspex.auspex.com>, hitz@auspex.auspex.com (Dave Hitz) writes: >>> In article <90316.120552ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Ed Russell) writes: >>>>I have a Northgate 102. One of the switch settings is to configure it as >>>>a Dvorak keyboard. Key caps are available for a nominal fee. I assume >>>>the other Northgate models have the same capability(?). >>> >>> The print articles I remember seeing about the Dvorak keyboard have >>> included pictures showing a keyboard that not only has different >>> letters on different keys than qwertyiop, but actually has keys >>> arranged so that they fit differently under the fingers. (I believe >>> that there were more keys around the thumbs, so that those dextrous >>> members could do something besides type SPACE.) >>> > > Ah - but what's the point any way. Kinkead calculated that based on the > mechanical abilities of the typist a Dvorak keyboard will only give a > speed up of about 2.6%. (Card and Moran. "An Engineering Model of Human > Performance" in Handbook of Perception and Human Performance, Vol II. > ed. Boff, Kaufman and Thomas. Wiley: New York, 1986. p45-18.) Ordinary experience of people who do data entry for a living is 100% or 200% more keystrokes per day delivered text. Using the Dvorak layout is less painful, raising long term productivity, and less awkward, raising burst speeds. Of course, my data is anecdotal and yours is scientific. Bumblebees can't fly, either. > > Just ain't worth the effort for so little gain, better to practice on what > you've got. > > -- > Erik J Fretheim > efrethei@afit.af.mil AFIT/ENA Box 4151 (ATTN: CPT FRETHEIM) > (513)255-5276 AVN785-5276 WPAFB, OH 45431 USA dan herrick herrickd@astro.pc.ab.com
herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (11/17/90)
In article <1990Nov13.190942.21986@bpdsun1.uucp>, rmf@bpdsun1.uucp (Rob Finley) writes: > In article <markd.658483813@sunchat> Markd@Aus.Sun.COM writes: >>herrickd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes: >> >>>In article <muLes1w163w@turbo.atl.ga.us>, greg@turbo.atl.ga.us (Greg Montgomery) writes: >>>> I'm looking for anywhere I can get a Dvorak keyboard for my 386. If >>>> anyone knows any manufacturers or sellers of them, please let me know. >> >>>I think Jerry Pournelle said that Northgate has one. All it takes is >>>a different set of molded keytops. (I don't understand why Jerry >>>likes the Northgate keyboards so much. I bot one and it doubles keys >>>on me and does not have N-Key Rollover.) >> >>>If you don't have to have the names of the keys engraved on the >>>keytops, PC-Write lets you remap the keyboard. So do various >>>other programs. Hang a picture of the key layout on the wall >>>and do the remapping in software. >> >>You don't mention which OS you're using but if it's UNIX/XENIX, there >>are a variety of trivial ways to remap keystrokes. In Xenix there is a >>keymap file and for Unix you could write a fairly trivial filter. >> >>You also may find that your keyboard lets you move the keys around by >>gentle prying individual keys off. But check the actual method with >>your keyboard manufacturer first, OK? > > My only hangup with that is the keycaps are beveled to match which > row they are in originally. If you move them, the keycaps are > slanted the wrong way and it feels awkward. > > Before you move the caps around (or take them all off B-), check > to see if they all have the same physical shape. Fortunately, > Northgate fixed it in almost the correct way by offering an > alternate set of keycaps. > > Make sure that you can live with Northgate's lack of N-key rollover > if you are a wild typist. You will go blind if you are and it doesn't. I started this error and I'm probably going to be a long time getting over it. The rollover is done by the BIOS code in the computer, not in the keyboard. The 2-key rollover versus N-key rollover decision was made by AMI, not by Northgate. It is a bad decision, but I was wrong to blame it on Northgate. dan herrick herrickd@astro.pc.ab.com
ee88sbp@surrey.ac.uk (Sean Broderick Purdy) (12/12/90)
I thought a Dvorak keyboard had 88 keys, approx. 35 of which are black and the rest white... ;-) Or is that a Dvorjak keyboard?! HHOJ, luv SEAN xxx ----------------------- ee88sbp@ee.surrey.uk.ac -----------------------