diamond@jit345.swstokyo.dec.com (Norman Diamond) (01/18/91)
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >-- >Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip> > "If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me > "c/o The Daily Planet, Metropolis." -- Jeff Daiell Well, what is the address of the telephone network? The post office? If there is an administrative office for the Universal Postal Union (which does not administer national post offices), it might correspond to uunet (which does not administer Usenet nodes). If there isn't, then it doesn't seem to have an address. What is the address of the software crisis? -- -- Norman Diamond diamond@tkov50.enet.dec.com If this were the company's opinion, I wouldn't be allowed to post it.
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (01/19/91)
According to diamond@jit345.enet@tkou02.enet.dec.com (Norman Diamond): >chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >> "If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me > >Well, what is the address of the telephone network? "The [worldwide] telephone network" does not exist. "The [U.S] telephone network" does not exist either, and it hasn't existed since divestiture. In some senses, it never did. There are many and diverse organizations that make up "the telephone network." If you look closely -- by reading your phone bill, for example -- you can discern the elements that make up what we might consider "the network." They -- AT&T, MCI, Sprint, GTE, etc. -- _do_ exist, and they _do_ have mailing addresses. >The post office? I don't know enough about the Post Office to answer. >What is the address of the software crisis? We're discussing organizations, not situations. -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip> "If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me "c/o The Daily Planet, Metropolis." -- Jeff Daiell
ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) (01/19/91)
In article <1991Jan18.040511.16670@tkou02.enet.dec.com> diamond@jit345.enet@tkou02.enet.dec.com (Norman Diamond) writes: >chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>-- >> "If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me > >Well, what is the address of the telephone network? The post office? >If there is an administrative office for the Universal Postal Union >(which does not administer national post offices), it might correspond >to uunet (which does not administer Usenet nodes). If there isn't, >then it doesn't seem to have an address. The Post Office is easy: Postmaster <your town> <your state> or Postmaster General Washington DC The telephone network is a bit more problematical, though for most people in the USA its likely to be: AT&T Basking Ridge NJ The phone network has a definite existence, try tapping into it without authorization and tell the world about it and see how long you last :-) The Universal Postal Union is now an agency of the UN (I think) and can be reached through the UN offices in NYC. On the other hand, please point out to me a person in any location whose permissions I must obtain (at least by proxy and other than my own) to post an article on "usenet". -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
diamond@jit345.swstokyo.dec.com (Norman Diamond) (01/19/91)
In article <1991Jan19.015840.9449@wolves.uucp> ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >In article <1991Jan18.040511.16670@tkou02.enet.dec.com> diamond@jit345.enet@tkou02.enet.dec.com (Norman Diamond) writes: >>Well, what is the address of the telephone network? The post office? >>If there is an administrative office for the Universal Postal Union >>(which does not administer national post offices), it might correspond >>to uunet (which does not administer Usenet nodes). > >The Post Office is easy: Postmaster > <your town> <your state> Usenet is easy: postmaster@yournode.domain > or > Postmaster General > Washington DC Nope; he or she doesn't administer the Japanese post office. >The telephone network is a bit more problematical, though for most >people in the USA its likely to be: > AT&T > Basking Ridge NJ Not if they're concerned with their monthly bill or MCI bill. At least you remembered that their NTT and KDD bills are also exceptions. >The phone network has a definite existence, try tapping into it without >authorization and tell the world about it and see how long you last :-) Yes, you should get caught by your local phone company. Try tapping into someone's LAN. Now, some LAN administrators don't have the same kind of security that others have, but the same reasoning applies: the owner of the LAN should catch you. >The Universal Postal Union is now an agency of the UN (I think) and can >be reached through the UN offices in NYC. Yes, but they don't administer the national post offices. Just like postmaster@uunet.uu.net doesn't administer Usenet. But if you want addresses, they correspond. >On the other hand, please point out to me a person in any location >whose permissions I must obtain (at least by proxy and other than my >own) to post an article on "usenet". postmaster@your_feed.domain Or the internet administration, if you have a direct connection. Etc. -- Norman Diamond diamond@tkov50.enet.dec.com If this were the company's opinion, I wouldn't be allowed to post it.
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (01/22/91)
[ Followups to news.misc ]
I'm not sure that an earlier article got out; if it did, I apologize
for the inconvenience.
"What is the address of the telephone network?"
There is no such thing as "the telephone network." There once was
something that was almost equivalent to "the U.S. telephone network";
it was called AT&T. Post-divestiture, even that is gone.
Look closely at what you might consider "the telephone network." You
will find, not one entity, but many. The individual parts that make
it up in the U.S are the federal government (regulation), AT&T, GTE,
MCI, etc, etc. Look outside the U.S. and you see the national post
offices, each of which runs its own telephone system. They cooperate,
but they are distinct.
Likewise Usenet, but to the Nth degree. Each site is a fiefdom unto
itself. The only commonality among sites is the data exchange format,
namely, the Usenet article format. And even that isn't universal,
since Usenet articles also propagate as E-Mail (RFC822 and otherwise),
BITNET files, etc, etc.
It is true that the cooperation of various independent entities seems
to take on an independent existence; but such seeming existence is an
illusion. "The telephone network" and Usenet are nothing more than
consensual hallucinations.
So the answer to "where is the telephone network" is the same as the
answer to "where is Usenet": "Nowhere in particular." Usenet has no
existence of its own. Thus, in a very real sense, it does not exist.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>
"If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me
"c/o The Daily Planet, Metropolis." -- Jeff Daielldiamond@jit345.swstokyo.dec.com (Norman Diamond) (01/23/91)
In article <27975CC4.5218@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >According to diamond@jit345.enet@tkou02.enet.dec.com (Norman Diamond): >>chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes: >>> "If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me >>Well, what is the address of the telephone network? >>What is the address of the software crisis? > >We're discussing organizations, not situations. Then fix your wording. Try: "If Usenet is an organization, then what is its mailing address?" I agree with you that Usenet is not an organization. -- Norman Diamond diamond@tkov50.enet.dec.com If this were the company's opinion, I wouldn't be allowed to post it.
chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (01/26/91)
According to diamond@jit345.enet@tkou02.enet.dec.com (Norman Diamond):
> "If Usenet is an organization, then what is its mailing address?"
While more accurate technically, this version lacks punch. Where will
you stop?
"If Usenet is a legally registered organization with person or persons
responsible for the way it is run, the newsgroups created and the
content of transmitted articles, then what is its mailing address?"
I'll stick with the simple version, thanks.
--
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>
"If Usenet exists, then what is its mailing address?" -- me
"c/o The Daily Planet, Metropolis." -- Jeff Daiell