rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (04/09/91)
The topic of asymmetric Logitech mice came up in comp.unix.sysv386 a while back. I noted that the Trackman would have been a great idea, except that it was utterly right-handed, and didn't come in a left- handed model. Someone else had noted that the newest Logitech mouse (Mouseman, which replaces(?) the old C9) is asymmetric, but is avail- able in left- or right-handed versions. I lauded this as at least a partial awakening on Logitech's part. Un- fortunately, it may not mean much. Poking around in stores, I find the left-handed mouse essentially nonexistent. Yesterday I noticed a display with some 50 of these mice--ALL right-handed models. What gives? Are the stores too stupid to order both models? Do they only order a token quantity which immediately sells out? Or is Logitech not making/distributing sensible quantities? Ergonomic design which is openly antagonistic toward 10% of the population is not ergonomic design. -- Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 ...Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been.
phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr8.194705.1225@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: > [comments about assymetric mice deleted] >Ergonomic design which is openly antagonistic toward 10% of the population >is not ergonomic design. >-- >Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 > ...Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been. I'm left-handed myself, but can't agree with you. I can use a mouse right- handed with no problem, even on something tricky like the SGI flight simulator. I once set up a Sun I had all to myself with the left-handed options, but found it too annoying to redefine things or change finger patterns when using other workstations. The left-handed options, IMHO, border on fritterware. Look, on the average, we're smarter and better looking than the majority. We can put up with minor details more easily, too. I play the banjo right-handed, as well, but some people wish I didn't. This might have more to do with the instrument and my skill than my handedness. -- | phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG | Phil Gustafson | {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil | UN*X/graphics consultant | sgi!gsi!phil | 1550 Martin Ave., San Jose CA 95126 | phil@gsi | 408/286-1749
frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales) (04/10/91)
In article <1991Apr9.062646.22750@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) writes: >I'm left-handed myself, but can't agree with you. I can use a mouse right- >handed with no problem, Just to confuse you, I'm right-handed but use my mouse left-handed. I do this to have room on the right for my notepad, telephone and coffee. -- Frank Wales, Grep Limited, [frank@grep.co.uk<->uunet!grep!frank] Kirkfields Business Centre, Kirk Lane, LEEDS, UK, LS19 7LX. (+44) 532 500303
anneb@zogwarg.etl.army.mil (Anne Brink) (04/12/91)
>In article <1991Apr8.194705.1225@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >> [comments about assymetric mice deleted] >>Ergonomic design which is openly antagonistic toward 10% of the population >>is not ergonomic design. >>-- Hear, hear! >>Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 >> ...Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been. phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) replies: >I'm left-handed myself, but can't agree with you. I can use a mouse right- >handed with no problem, even on something tricky like the SGI flight >simulator. I once set up a Sun I had all to myself with the left-handed >options, but found it too annoying to redefine things or change finger >patterns when using other workstations. The left-handed options, IMHO, >border on fritterware. That really depends on a lot of things. I'm not at all right-moused when it comes to precision. I really need to use a mouse on the left, but I've discovered that most software doesn't expect me to swap the buttons around. With the buttons swapped, when the software says "click left", I will click the left button, even though it's now the "right" button 90% of the time. >Look, on the average, we're smarter and better looking than the majority. >We can put up with minor details more easily, too. >I play the banjo right-handed, as well, but some people wish I didn't. >This might have more to do with the instrument and my skill than my >handedness. We also die on the average 9 years earlier (someone's _bound_ to bring that one up) Maybe it's from all that stress induced by constantly turning the world backwards. We also have more allergies, which lowers our tolerance to annoyances in pollen season. [ insert (-: for the humor-impaired.] Different lefties have different problems mirroring all you righties. You will never be able to make me sew on buttons right handed, I garauntee it. I can play softball with either hand, but when it comes to precision, I cannot do things off-handed. To keep this in a comp.vein, the very few handist problems I encounter with computers are "computer desks" that don't give me room on the left for my mouse, keyboards with mouse connectors on the right (and short mouse cables), funnily shaped mice (see a theme, here?) and joysticks with the button on the left of the stick. Keyboards are pretty symmetrical, so are monitors, disk drives and modems. They are not problems, at least as far as handedness is concerned (-: I was a guinea pig for some software recently on a system that had the optical mouse pad firmly "nailed" down on the right, and had trouble manipulating the mouse properly throughout the test run, which consisted of outlining some shapes. It hadn't occured to the system setter-upper (or the developer, for that matter) that this might be a problem. I'm generally very pleased and often impressed when it looks like a developer has taken lefties into account in their productions when it matters. I am more likely to buy something that is not a difficulty to use. I am also more likely to _use_ it once I have it. >-- > | phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG | Phil Gustafson > | {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil | UN*X/graphics consultant > | sgi!gsi!phil | 1550 Martin Ave., San Jose CA 95126 > | phil@gsi | 408/286-1749 -Anne -- ############################################################################### Anne Brink # U.S. Army Engineer Topographic Labs anneb@etl.army.mil # Ft. Belvoir, VA , 22060-5546 ###############################################################################
mikeg@c3.c3.lanl.gov (Michael P. Gerlek) (04/13/91)
In article <1991Apr10.145240.13222@grep.co.uk>, frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales) writes: > In article <1991Apr9.062646.22750@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, > phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) writes: > >I'm left-handed myself, but can't agree with you. I can use a mouse right- > >handed with no problem, > > Just to confuse you, I'm right-handed but use my mouse left-handed. > I do this to have room on the right for my notepad, telephone and coffee. Okay, so being right-handed and all, this sounded like a good idea, so I just sent my mouse over to the left side of my Sun and tried it that way for five minutes. It's *amazingly* difficult to manage. Frankly I'm rather amazed all you left-handed types get anything done at all this way :-) -- -[mpg] mikeg@lanl.gov "Tell your mother you walked all night on Velvet Green."
dsr@stl.stc.co.uk (D.S.Riches) (04/15/91)
In the referenced article anneb@zogwarg.etl.army.mil (Anne Brink) writes: > > >That really depends on a lot of things. I'm not at all right-moused when >it comes to precision. I really need to use a mouse on the left, but I've >discovered that most software doesn't expect me to swap the buttons around. >With the buttons swapped, when the software says "click left", I will click the >left button, even though it's now the "right" button 90% of the time. > Do you mean that the software has changed the 'right' and 'left'? If not then the 'left button` doesn`t become a 'right button' merely by moving the pad from the RHS to the LHS of a workstation. Dave Riches PSS: David.S.Riches@stl.stc.co.uk (or dsr@stl.stc.co.uk) Smail: T2 West, STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA. England Phone: +44 (0)279-429531 x2496 Fax: +44 (0)279-454187
frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales) (04/15/91)
In article <MIKEG.91Apr12162132@c3.c3.lanl.gov> mikeg@c3.c3.lanl.gov (Michael P. Gerlek) writes: >In article <1991Apr10.145240.13222@grep.co.uk> I wrote: >> Just to confuse you, I'm right-handed but use my mouse left-handed. >> I do this to have room on the right for my notepad, telephone and coffee. > >Okay, so being right-handed and all, this sounded like a good idea, so >I just sent my mouse over to the left side of my Sun and tried it that >way for five minutes. > >It's *amazingly* difficult to manage. Well, being able to used my right hand to write with and do other right- handed-type stuff is so important to me that you can bet I persevered for more than five minutes when I first tried this. I guess it depends what you use your mouse for; for me, it's mostly just window management. I found it also helps to have a keyboard with all shift-type keys on both sides of the main keyboard block; my current keyboard has two each of CTRL, ALT and SHIFT laid out symmetrically in the lower corners, meaning I don't need to reach across to the left of the keyboard for chording CTRL with mouse events. This layout also makes emacs easier to use, although it did give the designers an excuse to put CAPS LOCK next to A -- IMHO, CAPS LOCK should be somewhere more convenient; e.g., in another building. -- Frank Wales, Grep Limited, [frank@grep.co.uk<->uunet!grep!frank] Kirkfields Business Centre, Kirk Lane, LEEDS, UK, LS19 7LX. (+44) 532 500303
anneb@zogwarg.etl.army.mil (Anne Brink) (04/17/91)
>In the referenced article I wrote: >>That really depends on a lot of things. I'm not at all right-moused when >>it comes to precision. I really need to use a mouse on the left, but I've >>discovered that most software doesn't expect me to swap the buttons around. >>With the buttons swapped, when the software says "click left", I will click the >>left button, even though it's now the "right" button 90% of the time. dsr@stl.stc.co.uk (D.S.Riches) then asked: >Do you mean that the software has changed the 'right' and 'left'? If >not then the 'left button` doesn`t become a 'right button' merely by >moving the pad from the RHS to the LHS of a workstation. Um, yes and no. Sorry, bad proofreading. Mea Culpa. Let's try that again: Moving the mouse from right to left sometimes has me clicking with the wrong finger, despite the fact that I have more control over the mouse. Some software "helps" me by allowing me to set "left mouse'dness", swapping mouse buttons. Although it gives my brain a little less confusion, and allows me to click most frequently with my stronger finger, noone's software instructions work any more, and it ends up causing me more trouble. So I use my less dominant finger to click left with, but I get the control I want by having the mouse in my left hand. Make more sense? > Dave Riches > PSS: David.S.Riches@stl.stc.co.uk (or dsr@stl.stc.co.uk) -Anne -- ############################################################################### Anne Brink # Most of our lives are spent in Plan "B" anneb@etl.army.mil # ###############################################################################
jimr@newbridge.com (Jim Roche) (04/17/91)
Call me a pathological case. My Macintosh (yes, some of us still use them) sits on the left side of my desk, and my Sun on the right. So I Mac-mouse with my left hand and Sun-mouse with my right. And I'm left handed. As other lefties know, we are ideally suited to split-brain experiments like this. No we're not. Hey! -- Jim Roche (jimr@newbridge.com), Newbridge Networks (613) 591-3600