evan@txsil.lonestar.org (Evan Antworth) (04/13/91)
There's an old story, perhaps apochryphal, that ends with the line "It's turtles all the way down!". I know I have seen it in print somewhere. Can someone either provide a published reference for it or give a convincing rendition of it? Thanks, Evan Antworth evan@txsil.lonestar.org
rjm@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Robert J. McArthur) (04/15/91)
Stephen Hawkings, "A Brief History of Time", on one of the first pages. -- Robert McArthur Centre for Resource and Environment Studies Australian National University ACSNet rjm@arp.anu.oz.au ACT Australia 2601 Pegasus|PeaceNet|EcoNet peg:robert (06) 249 4760
akbloom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom) (04/15/91)
rjm@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Robert J. McArthur) writes: >Stephen Hawkings, "A Brief History of Time", on one of the first pages. >-- An older reference: Carl Sagan, "Broca's Brain", 1978, ch. 24: Gott and the Turtles. Can anyone find an even older one?
sean@think.com (Sean Colbath) (04/15/91)
In article <1991Apr15.002132.29831@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> akbloom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom) writes: >rjm@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Robert J. McArthur) writes: > >>Stephen Hawkings, "A Brief History of Time", on one of the first pages. >>-- >An older reference: Carl Sagan, "Broca's Brain", 1978, ch. 24: Gott >and the Turtles. > >Can anyone find an even older one? Bertrand Russel. The story went something like this: Apparently he was giving a lecture on cosmology somewhere. A rather elderly woman came up to him and said (Ann Elk voice here: Eh-hem!) that she thought that the world rested on the back of a giant turtle. Russel chided her, and asked her what that turtle stood on. Why, on the back of another turtle, of course. And that one? "Oh, you can't fool me, Mr. Russel. It's turtles all the way down!" Sean Colbath sean@think.com ...harvard!think!sean "...and now for something completely different..." -- Sean Colbath sean@think.com ...harvard!think!sean "...and now for something completely different..."
meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) (04/15/91)
In article <1991Apr15.002132.29831@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> akbloom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom) writes: | rjm@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Robert J. McArthur) writes: | An older reference: Carl Sagan, "Broca's Brain", 1978, ch. 24: Gott | and the Turtles. | | Can anyone find an even older one? I heard it attributed to Henry James. -- Michael Meissner email: meissner@osf.org phone: 617-621-8861 Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA, 02142 Considering the flames and intolerance, shouldn't USENET be spelled ABUSENET?
mike@wang.com (Mike Sullivan) (04/15/91)
... Discussion of the origin of the line "It's turtles all the way down" sean@think.com (Sean Colbath) writes: >Bertrand Russel. The story went something like this: Apparently he was >giving a lecture on cosmology somewhere. A rather elderly woman came up to >him and said (Ann Elk voice here: Eh-hem!) that she thought that the world ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >rested on the back of a giant turtle. Russel chided her, and asked her what >that turtle stood on. Why, on the back of another turtle, of course. And >that one? "Oh, you can't fool me, Mr. Russel. It's turtles all the way >down!" "No No, That's A-n-n-E Elk.!" "So here it is, my theory. [ and what it is too. ] EH-HEH-HEH-HEM" "..." -- ________________________ / __ \ | Michael J. Sullivan | Caution: This message | \ \ / /\ |\ | / ` | | Wang Laboratories Inc. |was transmitted across | \/ \/ /--\ | \| \__T | | mike@WANG.COM |non-secured lines and \________________________/ | FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN|may have been ********
zweig@cs.uiuc.edu (Johnny Zweig) (04/16/91)
meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) writes: >In article <1991Apr15.002132.29831@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> >akbloom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom) writes: >| rjm@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Robert J. McArthur) writes: >| An older reference: Carl Sagan, "Broca's Brain", 1978, ch. 24: Gott >| and the Turtles. >| >| Can anyone find an even older one? >I heard it attributed to Henry James. I heard another version of the Bertrand Russel story -- only he is in India, talking to some conference on Cosmology, and a man comes up afterwards and says he is a devout Hindu and he knows that the world is supported on the backs of four elephants. "But what are the elephants standing on?" asks Russel. "On the back of a giant turtle." "But what is the turtle standing on?" "On the back of another, even larger one." "But what is _that_ turtle standing on?!?" "After that, sahib, it is turtles all the way down." This version from a Comp-Sci teacher at the University of Oregon. I guess the source of the second most famous turtle quote (the most famous being "Cowabunga!" ;-) is one of those cosmic mysteries (urban legends) that is unkowable.... -Johnny T
ddh@hare.cdc.com (Dan Horsfall) (04/16/91)
In article <MEISSNER.91Apr15003319@curley.osf.org>, meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) writes: > In article <1991Apr15.002132.29831@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> > akbloom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Keith Bloom) writes: > > | rjm@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Robert J. McArthur) writes: > > | An older reference: Carl Sagan, "Broca's Brain", 1978, ch. 24: Gott > | and the Turtles. > | > | Can anyone find an even older one? > > I heard it attributed to Henry James. > -- I have Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" open in front of me at this very instant, and I quote therefrom: "A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell)..." It's the opening sentence of the first paragraph, Chapter 1, page 1. The early poster who recollected it being "near the front of the book" understated his case somewhat :-). -- Horse + Control Data Corporation Dan Horsfall +1-612-482-4622 + 4201 Lexington Ave North Internet ddh@dash.udev.cdc.com + Arden Hills MN 55126 USA
evan@txsil.lonestar.org (Evan Antworth) (04/18/91)
Thanks to all those who replied about the turtle story. As for the oldest reference to the story, one person attributed to a myth, possibly Hindu. The oldest published reference that anyone came up with is John Ross's PhD dissertation "Constraints on Variables in Syntax", MIT, 1968. --Evan
jwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Jeff Wilson) (04/19/91)
<1991Apr14.232710.8841@newshost.anu.edu.au> <1991Apr15.002132.29831@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> <1991Apr15.021623.29256@Think.COM> <b3x9vl.6k9@wang.com> Sender: Reply-To: jwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Jeff Wilson) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA Keywords: > >"No No, That's A-n-n-E Elk.!" > >"So here it is, my theory. [ and what it is too. ] EH-HEH-HEH-HEM" > >"..." That's Anne Elk Brackets Miss Brackets Would you like to come home with me??
sdbeck@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (04/20/91)
In article <458@txsil.lonestar.org>, evan@txsil.lonestar.org (Evan Antworth) writes: > Thanks to all those who replied about the turtle story. As for the oldest > reference to the story, one person attributed to a myth, possibly Hindu. > The oldest published reference that anyone came up with is John Ross's PhD > dissertation "Constraints on Variables in Syntax", MIT, 1968. > > --Evan Well, I know the origin of this one is in Indian mythology. However, I do *not* know if it is Indian or Native American. If it really matters, I can find out, although I seem to recall from my Indian Philosophies class last semester that it is, indeed, Hindu. Dan Becker Macalester College St. Paul MN
steves@hpuamsa.neth.hp.com (Steve South CRC) (04/22/91)
Readers of the Terry Pratchett Discworld novels will, of course, know that there is only one turtle, called the Great A'Tuin. Some thinkers believe that it (the sex has not yet been determined) is moving through the universe at a constant pace (the 'steady gait' theory), while others believe that many turtles are heading for the same place where there will be a unique cosmic mating followed by the birth of further turtles. This is known as the big bang theory. Steve (Sodomy non sapiens) South