conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) (08/24/89)
I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed
that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of
the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal
to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true?
Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA?
--
Conor O'Neill, Software Group, INMOS Ltd. UK: conor@inmos.co.uk
Disclaimer: All views are my own, US: @col.hp.com:conor@inmos-c
not those of INMOS.
"It's state-of-the-art" "But it doesn't work!" "That is the state-of-the-art".msmith@hardees.rutgers.edu (Mark Robert Smith) (08/25/89)
It is certainly not illegal to show the film on the crash. In fact, on the day of the crash, I saw news flashes all afternoon long, and they replayed the explosion so many times, that I never want to see it again. However, I think you'll find that not many people want to see the crash again. Mark -- Mark Smith | "Be careful when looking into the distance, |All Rights 61 Tenafly Road|that you do not miss what is right under your nose."| Reserved Tenafly,NJ 07670-2643|rutgers!topaz.rutgers.edu!msmith,msmith@topaz.rutgers.edu You may redistribute this article only to those who may freely do likewise.
watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson) (08/25/89)
In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk> conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: > I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed > that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of > the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal > to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? > > Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA? Challenger? What disaster? Maybe your thinking of an old TWILLIGHT ZONE episode. (Wasn't there one about an experimental spacecraft that disappears, then comes back 24 hours later and crashes? And the three astronauts disappear one by one, and nobody remembers them after they disapper. And finally it's like they never existed in ther first place.) Seriously, I saw that ABC is doing a made for TV move about the Challenger, staring my favorite actress of all time ... Karen Allen. Or maybe I just dreamed the whole thing. John S. Watson, Civil Servant from Hell ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center UUCP: ...!ames!watson Any opinions expressed herein are, like, solely the responsibility of the, like, author and do not, like, represent the opinions of NASA or the U.S. Government.
wasg@diomedes.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) (08/25/89)
In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk> conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: >I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed >that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of >the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal >to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? > That's funny, I was there a year ago, and can remember at least a couple of mentions of the disaster. There is a dedication to the Challenger crew in _The Dream Is Alive_, the IMAX movie that was being shown at the time. In the foyer of the visitor's center, there was an exhibit of the winning entry in the Challenger Memorial competition. I could swear that the tour guide mentioned that the shuttle sitting on the pad at the time was going to be America's return to space after the accident. >Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA? Not at all, in fact a TV movie about the crew of Challenger is in production as we speak. They did some shooting here at JSC a couple of months ago. This is not a .signature line... Eric Salituro @ Rice University Houston TX 77251-1892 (713) 527-8101 x2474 Life is like a metaphor. INTERNET: wasg@rice.edu
logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) (08/25/89)
In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk>, conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: > I've also heard since that it is illegal to show the film of the disaster > in America. Is this true? It is not illegal to show films of any news event on USA TV. In fact, the prohibition of showing any such film would be in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and the US Courts would quickly rule against any US law enforcement agency that tried to suppress such footage. Furthermore, US government film footage (and any other kind of media) is not protected by copyright. Once the footage gets out into the public, the government cannot even call it back based on copyright grounds. Anyone can make duplicates and even sell them for profit! They most certainly cannot, therefore, claim copyright on news events, even if they are highly involved in the event. Anyone can keep secrets (even if the law forbids such secrets) and there is no way to guarantee that US agencies are not keeping secrets. But once the US "leaks" a secret, it cannot be suppressed. This was tested in the so called "Pentagon Papers" case, where top secret documents were leaked to the press and published in a newspaper serial. The courts ruled that the government could not even stop the publication of those secrets, and at best could only go after the newspaper AFTER publication. In conclusion, the only way to suppress information in the US is not to let the media find out about it. Once it does, the cat is out of the bag. -- - John M. Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - - logajan@ns.network.com / ...rutgers!umn-cs!ns!logajan / john@logajan.mn.org -
mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) (08/25/89)
In article <932@brazos.Rice.edu> wasg@diomedes.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) writes: >Not at all, in fact a TV movie about the crew of Challenger is in production >as we speak. They did some shooting here at JSC a couple of months ago. Which only goes to show that Americans have extremely poor taste. :-)
envbvs@epb2.lbl.gov (Brian V. Smith) (08/25/89)
In article <17591@ut-emx.UUCP>, mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes: < < In article <932@brazos.Rice.edu> wasg@diomedes.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) writes: < >Not at all, in fact a TV movie about the crew of Challenger is in production < >as we speak. They did some shooting here at JSC a couple of months ago. < < Which only goes to show that Americans have extremely poor taste. :-) Make that "American television producers." I don't like to be pigeon-holed with everyone else. 8-) _____________________________________ Brian V. Smith (bvsmith@lbl.gov) Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory I don't speak for LBL, these non-opinions are all mine.
kev@ist.CO.UK (Kev Holmes) (08/25/89)
From article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk>, by conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill): > I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed > that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of > the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal > to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? You obviously missed out on the IMAX which was dedicated to the memory of the Challenger 7. I also recall seeing a plaque of rememberance listing all who have died in the US space effort (i.e. Apollo 1 etc). > > Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA? Yow! Are you trying to incite a flame war, or did you drink too much at lunchtime? 'Ostriches' are not restricted to any one country. > -- > Conor O'Neill, Software Group, INMOS Ltd. UK: conor@inmos.co.uk Kev Holmes kev@ist.CO.UK | disney, diz'nee, v.t. Imperial Software Technology | to queue excessively for a very short ride Reading, Royal Berkshire, UK | [prob S.E. & S.W. U.S.]
jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Jeffrey W Percival) (08/25/89)
In article <3687@helios.ee.lbl.gov> envbvs@epb2.lbl.gov (Brian V. Smith) writes: >In article <17591@ut-emx.UUCP>, mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes: >< In article <932@brazos.Rice.edu> wasg@diomedes.rice.edu (Eric >Salituro) writes: >< >Not at all, in fact a TV movie about the crew of Challenger is in production >< >as we speak. They did some shooting here at JSC a couple of months ago. >< Which only goes to show that Americans have extremely poor taste. :-) >Make that "American television producers." Nope. All you can say about television *producers* is that they have a demonstrably accurate perception of the tastes of television *consumers*. If it didn't sell, they wouldn't do it. The "americans/poor taste" comment is of course a generalization, but doesn't it wear you down seeing how accurate it is, by and large? A slightly related comment: I was doing a radio call-in show last week talking about Neptune, etc. and a caller asked: why go to Neptune, when you don't even know anything about it, when you can find out something *definite* by going to mars and checking out that face? Argh... -- Jeff Percival (jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu)
scott@bbxeng.UUCP (Engineering) (08/25/89)
In article <17591@ut-emx.UUCP> mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes: >In article <932@brazos.Rice.edu> wasg@diomedes.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) writes: >>Not at all, in fact a TV movie about the crew of Challenger is in production >>as we speak. They did some shooting here at JSC a couple of months ago. > >Which only goes to show that Americans have extremely poor taste. :-) I second that. I have grown rather tired of watching the Challenger explode. Everytime I see a film clip of a space shuttle anymore, I brace myself for the explosion. If it doesn't explode, I think "Well that must've been the one that made it". While there are obviously important lessons to learn from the Challenger accident I don't see the point in wallowing in it. I don't believe that a movie about Challenger is seriously intended to "honor" the victims as much as it is intended to cash in on America's perverse desire to re-live bad experiences. Now, if the movie intends to expose the corruption and bad management that led to the accident - that's a different matter entirely. :-) -- --------------------------------------- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM 505-345-5232
hhd0@GTE.COM (Horace Dediu) (08/26/89)
In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk>, conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: > the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal > to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? > > Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA? > Conor O'Neill, Software Group, INMOS Ltd. UK: conor@inmos.co.uk > Disclaimer: All views are my own, US: @col.hp.com:conor@inmos-c > not those of INMOS. > "It's state-of-the-art" "But it doesn't work!" "That is the state-of-the-art". Are all Britons ostriches? Illegal? I suggest our British friend remove his head from the sand. This country has no such laws. I can invite the world over to my house to watch the Challenger disaster on TV. It's been replayed thousands of times on nationwide TV. This is not the People's Rebulic! Who ever gave you this notion? Statist totalitarians of the far left fringe? That NASA will not advertise its failures is their business. If I were in charge of KSC I would not have a "disaster" exhibit. We don't want to depress the righteous tax payers and have them call representatives and tell them how bad we are. Public Relations, you know. -- Horace Dediu Goodbye, cruel world. GTE Laboratories (617) 466-4111 #cd /;rm -Rf * & 40 Sylvan Road UUCP: ...!harvard!bunny!hhd0 Waltham, MA 02254 Internet: hhd0@gte.com or hhd0%gte.com@relay.cs.net U. S. A.
tmurphy@wpi.wpi.edu (Tom [Chris] Murphy) (08/26/89)
In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk> conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: >I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed >that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of >the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal >to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? > >Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA? >-- >Conor O'Neill, Software Group, INMOS Ltd. UK: conor@inmos.co.uk >Disclaimer: All views are my own, US: @col.hp.com:conor@inmos-c > not those of INMOS. >"It's state-of-the-art" "But it doesn't work!" "That is the state-of-the-art". I'm a bit surprised there isn't some sort of memorial, but then again, how many times to you see memorials to Apollo 1, hmmm? That was just as much a 'disaster' as the Challenger blowing up, or the HUNDREDS of fatal accidents that occur in experimantal aviation. Thomas C. Murphy Worcester Polytechnic Institute CAD Lab Internet: tmurphy@wpi.wpi.edu tmurphy@zaphod.wpi.edu BITNET: TMURPHY@WPI BIX: tmurphy CompuServe: 73766,130
reb@squid.rtech.com (Richard Baum (*-= REB=-*)) (08/26/89)
In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk> conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: >I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed >that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of >the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal >to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? It would be unconstitutional to prohibit the showing of the film. Your facts are wrong. It's been shown on TV here numerous times. As to the mention - or lack thereof - at KSC, that's NASA's business. I thought they had some kind of memorial. reb This net's for Internet: reb@rtech.COM or reb%rtech.com@lll-winken.llnl.GOV ***YOU***! homeSMail: 861 Washington Ave Westwood, NJ 07675 h:201-666-9207 This message has been sponsored by D.A.M. - Mothers Against Dyslexia
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (08/26/89)
In article <713@larry.sal.wisc.edu>, jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Jeffrey W Percival) writes: | The "americans/poor taste" comment is of course a generalization, | but doesn't it wear you down seeing how accurate it is, by and large? There are enough Americans that a lot of tastes are present. Consider that we have our government on live TV every day (CSPAN), three educational cable TV channels (Discover and two I don't get), NPR (National Public Radio) and PBS (Public Broadcasting Service). Most areas (even Schenectady) have several public TV stations (for non-residents, public radio/TV is supported by people who can listen for free sending in money because they like the station. Like shareware). There are people with poor taste, bad taste, and no taste at all in the usa, but there is a lot of good taste here, too. This country manages to support private museums, libraries, etc, because people here are willing to pay to see quality. Tell me which other countries have the government on TV daily, or have educational broadcasting supported by the viewers. Short list, isn't it. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called 'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see that the world is flat!" - anon
mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) (08/26/89)
In article <190@crdos1.crd.ge.COM> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: >In article <713@larry.sal.wisc.edu>, jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Jeffrey W Percival) writes: > >| The "americans/poor taste" comment is of course a generalization, >| but doesn't it wear you down seeing how accurate it is, by and large? > > There are enough Americans that a lot of tastes are present. Consider >that we have our government on live TV every day (CSPAN), Yeah, but CSPAN is always barely breaking even (and almost went off the air, permanently, a couple of years ago--but then again, I'm continually amazed that the Weather Channel stays in business, too :-)). And as far as it providing unadulturated wisdom, I always get a chuckle when the impassioned Senator, calling out challenges to the gallery, always turns out to be addressing an empty room. I strongly oppose televising House, Senate, or any judicial activities. It cheapens everyone involved. >educational cable TV channels (Discover and two I don't get), More winners, barely breaking even. >PBS (Public Broadcasting Service). I noticed that PBS did not deign to pre-empt Sesame Street this morning with more Voyager broadcasts. > etc, etc. All of which does not deny the fact that the dramatization of the Challenger schlock will be watched by 50 million people. And will probably be aired during "sweeps," in which other major competitors will attempt to air even more lurid tales (hey, maybe there'll even be a 48-hour miniseries on Nazi gas chambers--boy, won't THAT be a change). Altogether, on such a distinguished night, you'll find 120-150 million people watching CRAP. And the next night, you'll probably find the other half of the population. :-) Oh, and maybe two or three million watching/listening to all the other services you described COMBINED. Yeah, there's a lot of diversity in the United States. But when one talks about popular culture, the couch potatos run the asylum. >This country >manages to support private museums, libraries, etc, Just barely, sir! >because people here >are willing to pay to see quality. Tell me which other countries have >the government on TV daily, or have educational broadcasting supported >by the viewers. Short list, isn't it. I can name countries which don't have such services--but which do have what appear to be better-educated people, less shallow people. Gosh, what irony, eh? Now, the typical reply to such a post is to sing a few bars of "My country 'tis of Thee" and quote from a document which nobody apparently has ever read, the US Constitution... I wonder how many we'll get to see THIS time? :-) Cheers, Robert Dorsett Internet: mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu UUCP: ...cs.utexas.edu!walt.cc.utexas.edu!mentat
arul@sdsu.edu (Arul Ananthanarayanan) (08/26/89)
>In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk> conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: >>I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed >>that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of >>the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal >>to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? >> >>Are all Americans ostriches (heads in the sand), or just NASA? >>-- >>Conor O'Neill, Software Group, INMOS Ltd. UK: conor@inmos.co.uk I was at Spaceport USA on August 10th a few days after the recent launch. There is bronzed eagle monument to the ten astronauts who died. (Challenger and Apollo) The Imax theater presentation was dedicated to the Challenger crew. There were various other references too; pictures of the crew in the gift shop and such. I didn't get the impression that they were trying to hide anything. The crawler transport was out and about on the way back from 39A (or B?), pretty exciting stuff. Arul -- INTERNET: arul@sdsu.edu work: (619) 594-7207 UUCP: ....!ucsd!sdsu!arul home: (619) 583-0439
leech@alanine.cs.unc.edu (Jonathan Leech) (08/27/89)
In article <7471@bunny.GTE.COM> hhd0@GTE.COM (Horace Dediu) writes: >Are all Britons ostriches? >Illegal? I suggest our British friend remove his head from the sand. This >country has no such laws. I can invite the world over to my house to watch >the Challenger disaster on TV. It's been replayed thousands of times on >nationwide TV. This is not the People's Rebulic! Who ever gave you this >notion? Statist totalitarians of the far left fringe? Yeah, right. The US would *never* censor anyone. Except maybe by denying their NEA funding, or not admitting foreign artists with politically incorrect views in, or... Followups to talk.politics.misc. -- Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu) __@/ ``You're everything I ever wanted in a human AND an extraterrestrial.'' - Dr. Steve Mills in _My Stepmother is an Alien_
steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) (08/27/89)
In article <17591@ut-emx.UUCP> mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes: >In article <932@brazos.Rice.edu> wasg@diomedes.rice.edu (Eric Salituro) writes: >>Not at all, in fact a TV movie about the crew of Challenger is in production >Which only goes to show that Americans have extremely poor taste. :-) And how. A friend of mine got a part in it, and I wasn't sure I wanted to talk to him afterward. As a favor I'm withholding judgement and will watch it to see, but YUCK! Give it a rest. -- Steve Nuchia South Coast Computing Services uunet!nuchat!steve POB 890952 Houston, Texas 77289 (713) 964 2462 Consultation & Systems, Support for PD Software.
Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Druaidh) (08/27/89)
"> I'm a bit surprised there isn't some sort of memorial, but "> then again, "> how many times to you see memorials to Apollo 1, hmmm? There are memorials to killed workers, astronauts, and the like on the Space Coast; I will attempt to find out info on same and return to the conversation. -- Don't trust that map entry. Try "...peora!tarpit!libcmp!mamab" first. Fidonet: Mac Druaidh via 1:363/9 Internet: Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG Usenet: ...!peora!tarpit!libcmp!mamab!69!Mac.Druaidh
Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Druaidh) (08/27/89)
"> film. Your "> facts are wrong. It's been shown on TV here numerous "> times. As to the It sure has. CNN rolled it every 5 minutes the day it happened. I was home that day, and had just awakened to see the launch. Augh. -- Don't trust that map entry. Try "...peora!tarpit!libcmp!mamab" first. Fidonet: Mac Druaidh via 1:363/9 Internet: Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG Usenet: ...!peora!tarpit!libcmp!mamab!69!Mac.Druaidh
ssd@sugar.hackercorp.com (Scott Denham) (08/27/89)
> In article <1904@brwa.inmos.co.uk> conor@inmos.co.uk (Conor O'Neill) writes: > > I recently went around ``Spaceport USA'' at KSC, and I noticed > > that among all the exhibits there was not a single mention of > > the Challenger disaster. I've also heard since that it is illegal > > to show the film of the disaster in America. Is this true? > > Not so! I was there yesterday and saw at least two references to the Challenger disaster : In the Galaxy center, adjacent to the "applications of space technology" display, there is a memorial to all of those who have died while working in the space program, including the Challenger crew. The introduction to the IMAX film in the Galaxy theater, the fact that several of the Challenger crew appear in and contribute to the film is clearly pointed out, and in fact the film is dedicated to the Challenger crew. (It is, by the way, an INCREDIBLE film!!!!) Scott Denham Houston, TX
bei@elephant.UUCP (Bob Izenberg) (08/28/89)
I just watched the Korean Air Lines docudrama on one of the cable pay
channels. It isn't the best example of made-for-TV oversimplification,
but the formula it follows is likely the one the Challenger special will
obey. Picture this: some clips of the explosion, for background in case
you were thinking of some other Challenger disaster. Then some scenes with
policy disagreements, probably over sending Christa McAuliffe up. Expect
some photogenic aerospace engineer to spend some time pondering whether the
shuttle is ready to fly. He'll roll over when an actor doing a real soap
opera backstabbing slimeball at either NASA or M-T shoots him down.
The truth about the way it happened would make poor television. The movie
"Taps" has the military school commandant answer a confused cadet's question
about how someone could close the school by saying, "With the stroke of a pen."
Well, NASA and Thiokol managers doomed Challenger with the stroke of a
speakerphone. They conference-called those 7 people to death. The reality
of how small the thinking behind the launch decision will be overplayed, so
that the people buying the Enquirer will understand it. Subtlety has no
place on commercial television.
--- Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Izenberg, Brandon Consulting [ ] {backbone!}(nsscb,attctc,cbis3)!bei
------------------------------------------------------------------------jay@ncspm.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) (08/28/89)
In article <17643@ut-emx.UUCP> mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes: >I can name countries which don't have such services--but which do have what >appear to be better-educated people, less shallow people. Gosh, what irony, >eh? Please name the countries. -- "Good. For a minute I thought we were in trouble." --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jay C. Smith uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!ncspm!jay Domain: jay@ncspm.ncsu.edu internet: jay%ncspm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu
sanderso@rpics (Donald B. Sanderson) (08/28/89)
In article <334.24F7EF42@mamab.FIDONET.ORG> Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Druaidh) writes: >There are memorials to killed workers, astronauts, and the like on the Space >Coast; I will attempt to find out info on same and return to the >conversation. > A rather impressive memorial to the Challenger 7 is planned (in construction?). It will consist of a Dark Slab of rock, through which the names of the astronauts have been drilled. The slab will be elevated with a mirror behind it, and a motor drive that will follow the sun. Thus the names will glow with the light from the sky they were reaching for. This is to be located somwhere in the KSC complex, but I do not know where. This memorial is being erected by the people of Florida, specifically those of us who pay the extra fee each year for a Challenger Memorial License Plate. The rest of the funds generated by these plates are used to to fund college scholarships. I have hade one fo these plates since they first became available I like to think of it as a mobile memorial. It is a conversation starter (Especially while I am out of State), and let's me get a pro space point or two across when I am asked about it. | Donald Sanderson sanderso@turing.cs.rpi.edu | | RPI Computer Science Department (518) 276-8326 | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | In the Final Analysis Each Student is Responsible for his/her Own Education |
mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) (08/29/89)
In article <1803@ncspm.ncsu.edu> jay@ncspm.ncsu.EDU (Jay C. Smith) writes: >In article <17643@ut-emx.UUCP> mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) >writes: >>I can name countries which don't have such services--but which do have what >>appear to be better-educated people, less shallow people. Gosh, what irony, >>eh? > >Please name the countries. Austria, Switzerland, Japan, the Netherlands, Yugoslavia, Israel, West Germany, Australia, Palestine (gov't in exile), etc. There are, undoubtedly, more. If you wanted a scientific sampling, we could look at various characteristics, such as education (up to 30% illiteracy rate in the United States, the worst of the Western powers, political involvement, economic output, etc. Surveys show that 99% of the population can't name their representatives to Congress, the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and other prominent figures. A hell of a lot of us seem to think that Judge Wapner is a member of the US Supreme Court. We're running on fumes. Robert Dorsett Internet: mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu UUCP: ...cs.utexas.edu!walt.cc.utexas.edu!mentat
jay@ncspm.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) (08/29/89)
Noticed you changed the distribution on the follow-up to "usa." In article <17772@ut-emx.UUCP> mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) writes: >>In article <17643@ut-emx.UUCP> mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Robert Dorsett) >>writes: >>>I can name countries which don't have such services--but which do have what >>>appear to be better-educated people, less shallow people. Gosh, what irony, >>>eh? > >Austria, Switzerland, Japan, the Netherlands, Yugoslavia, Israel, West >Germany, Australia, Palestine (gov't in exile), etc. All countries with a very high degree of cultural single-mindedness and an almost complete lack of diversity among their citizens when compared to the US. One can say that there is an "appearance" of being better-educated and less shallow, but it certainly depends on one's frame of reference. Literacy rates may be one measure of these perceived qualities, but I can't think of how to measure the education involved in exposure to diversity. >A hell of a lot of us seem to think >that Judge Wapner is a member of the US Supreme Court. > >We're running on fumes. "Us?" "We?" Include me out, and stop reading USA Today! :-) -- "Good. For a minute I thought we were in trouble." --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jay C. Smith uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!ncspm!jay Domain: jay@ncspm.ncsu.edu internet: jay%ncspm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu
Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Druaidh) (08/29/89)
"> This memorial is being erected by the people of Florida, "> specifically "> those of us who pay the extra fee each year for a "> Challenger Memorial "> License Plate. The rest of the funds generated by these I have mine. A while back, the parents of one of the astronauts killed on Challenger were going through parking lots in Florida, leaving thank-you cards on cars with the tags. -- Don't trust that map entry. Try "...peora!tarpit!libcmp!mamab" first. Fidonet: Mac Druaidh via 1:363/9 Internet: Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG Usenet: ...!peora!tarpit!libcmp!mamab!69!Mac.Druaidh
john@frog.UUCP (John Woods) (09/09/89)
In article <346.24FB5796@mamab.FIDONET.ORG>, Mac.Druaidh@f69.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Druaidh) writes: > "> This memorial is being erected by the people of Florida, specifically > "> those of us who pay the extra fee each year for a Challenger Memorial > "> License Plate. The rest of the funds generated by these > I have mine. A while back, the parents of one of the astronauts killed on > Challenger were going through parking lots in Florida, leaving thank-you > cards on cars with the tags. (I've tried sending mail, and it bounced) Can non-Florida residents get one of these plates for hanging on a wall? -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA 508-626-1101 ...!decvax!frog!john, john@frog.UUCP, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw@eddie.mit.edu