davek@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Kraft) (09/21/89)
Here's an idea I've been thinking about since Hugo seems to be destined to smash into the east coast.. If a shuttle has been rolled out, why can't they roll it out onto a platform that goes down into the earrth to protect it? (kinda like a big elevator), and then people on the surface could put tarps, ect. over the hole, and wait for the storm to pass?? Dave (Please forgive me, I have just come from a day-long meeting with long lost frieds, and feel extremely silly. You may flame me as hard as you wish. even in public.) -- davek@lakesys.lakesys.com <OR> uunet!marque!lakesys!davek ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You must be starved, old friend. Come into my apartments and we'll suffer through a deep breakfast of pure sunlight." -- From "The Mummery by Love Ananda
sanderso@rpics (Donald B. Sanderson) (09/21/89)
In article <1108@lakesys.UUCP> davek@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Kraft) writes: .... >If a shuttle has been rolled out, why can't they roll it out onto a platform >that goes down into the earrth to protect it? (kinda like a big elevator), and >Dave >.... You may flame me as hard as you wish. even in public.) Well, I will not discuss technical merit of the idea, but as a Floridian, I can tell you we have a special name for deep holes in the ground .... Ponds. The water table is so high that any excavation quickly becomes water filled. This is why there are no basements in S. Florida buildings, they would be indoor swimming pools. | Donald Sanderson sanderso@turing.cs.rpi.edu | | RPI Computer Science Department (518) 276-8326 | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | In the Final Analysis Each Student is Responsible for his/her Own Education |
jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Jeffrey W Percival) (09/21/89)
In article <1108@lakesys.UUCP> davek@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Kraft) writes: >If a shuttle has been rolled out, why can't they roll it out onto a platform >that goes down into the earrth to protect it? (kinda like a big elevator), and >then people on the surface could put tarps, ect. over the hole, and wait for >the storm to pass?? Better yet... why not put wings on the launch pad, and fly it to Peoria whenever it gets cloudy? Tarps are soooo expensive. -- Jeff Percival (jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu)
wcr@branch.FIDONET.ORG (W.c. Rothanburg) (09/23/89)
In an article of <21 Sep 89 00:46:02 GMT>, davek@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Kraft) writes: >Here's an idea I've been thinking about since Hugo seems to be destined >to >smash into the east coast.. > >If a shuttle has been rolled out, why can't they roll it out onto a >platform >that goes down into the earrth to protect it? (kinda like a big >elevator), and >then people on the surface could put tarps, ect. over the hole, and wait >for >the storm to pass?? > And the Shuttle will be full of water, if Hugo was to stuke near the Cape. Most of Florida is low land, very easy to flood. Then there woiuld be the design of a system of that, would it be able to stand the heat of a launch?? Bill -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Out on a Limb in The Branch Office...." ] ] Fidonet : 1:369/11 The Branch Office. (branch.FIDONET.ORG) ] 1:369/0 Treasure Coast Net. ] UUCP : {sun!hoptoad, attctc, <internet>!mthvax}!ankh, ] gatech!uflorida!novavax!branch!wcr ] ] INTERNET: wcr@branch.FIDONET.ORG -or- wcr@f11.n369.z1.FIDONET.ORG ] BBS : +1 305 979-2073 ] 'I was asking for it.....' ] --------------------------------------------------------------------+
mdf@ziebmef.mef.org (Matthew Francey) (09/27/89)
>In an article of <21 Sep 89 00:46:02 GMT>, davek@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Kraft) >writes: > > >Here's an idea I've been thinking about since Hugo seems to be destined > >to > >smash into the east coast.. > > > >If a shuttle has been rolled out, why can't they roll it out onto a > >platform > >that goes down into the earrth to protect it? (kinda like a big > >elevator), and > >then people on the surface could put tarps, ect. over the hole, and wait > >for > >the storm to pass?? My idea is a bit more radical.... I say that NASA should launch a shuttle from inside the eye of a hurricane, since the very low air pressure -> higher engine thrust. Of course, there are some minor problems like moving the shuttle around so the eye passes over it, and whether or not it can stay upright in 150kmh+ winds... (and a friend pointed out that SRB recovery would be an, er, interesting exercise.) But hey, anything for those extra kilograms into orbit, right? :-) -- Name: Matthew Francey Address: N43o34'13.5" W79o34'33.3" 86m mdf@ziebmef.mef.org uunet!{utgpu!moore,attcan!telly}!ziebmef!mdf
hogg@db.toronto.edu (John Hogg) (09/27/89)
In article <1989Sep26.220340.13871@ziebmef.mef.org> mdf@ziebmef.mef.org (Matthew Francey) writes: > My idea is a bit more radical.... I say that NASA should launch a shuttle >from inside the eye of a hurricane, since the very low air pressure -> >higher engine thrust. Of course, there are some minor problems like >moving the shuttle around so the eye passes over it, and whether or not >it can stay upright in 150kmh+ winds... (and a friend pointed out that SRB >recovery would be an, er, interesting exercise.) But hey, anything for those >extra kilograms into orbit, right? :-) Radical? It's been done. (Well, Hollywood did it, which amounts to the same thing, doesn't it?) In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966), the rescue launch has to be scrubbed because of high winds on the pad, due to a tropical storm coming overhead. By the time the storm ends, the stranded astronauts will have run out of air. In a daring move, the launch is made right through the eye as it passes over head. Movie buffs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the rescue craft was even a lifting-body vehicle. I could well be wrong. That may have been the first non-kiddie movie I ever saw, and I haven't seen it since. -- John Hogg hogg@csri.utoronto.ca Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) (09/28/89)
In article <1989Sep27.110807.2646@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> hogg@db.toronto.edu (John Hogg) writes:
:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966),
:the rescue launch has to be scrubbed because of high winds on the pad,
:due to a tropical storm coming overhead. By the time the storm ends,
:the stranded astronauts will have run out of air. In a daring move,
:the launch is made right through the eye as it passes over head.
:
:Movie buffs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the rescue
:craft was even a lifting-body vehicle. I could well be wrong. That may
:have been the first non-kiddie movie I ever saw, and I haven't seen it
:since.
Yep, it was an X-20 "Dyna-soar" launched by a Titan. David Jansen
at the controls, I think.
As I recall, it was a fairly decent movie, though I'm sure they had
a number of serious bugs in it.
--
Mike Van Pelt "Beware the first release, my son,
Headland Technology/Video 7 and shun the frumious 1.0"
...ames!vsi1!v7fs1!mvphenry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (09/29/89)
In article <212@v7fs1.UUCP> mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966)... >:Movie buffs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the rescue >:craft was even a lifting-body vehicle... >Yep, it was an X-20 "Dyna-soar" launched by a Titan... Titan, yes; Dyna-soar, no. It was an "XRV" experimental USAF lifting body. (Dyna-soar had wings.) I don't know offhand whether the "XRV" ever existed; I suspect not. -- "Where is D.D. Harriman now, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology when we really *need* him?" | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
reb@squid.rtech.com ("REB - Take two checkpoints and call me in the morning") (10/02/89)
In article <1989Sep29.164653.29049@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <212@v7fs1.UUCP> mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >>:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966)... >>:Movie buffs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the rescue >>:craft was even a lifting-body vehicle... >>Yep, it was an X-20 "Dyna-soar" launched by a Titan... >Titan, yes; Dyna-soar, no. It was an "XRV" experimental USAF lifting body. >(Dyna-soar had wings.) I don't know offhand whether the "XRV" ever existed; >I suspect not. I remember the movie (The book was good too!) and I doubt anything like the ship ever existed except on paper or in the movie. reb On a clear disk reb@rtech.com *or* reb%rtech.com@lll-winken.llnl.GOV you can seek forever h:861 Washington Ave Westwood, NJ 07675 h:201-666-9207 ASCII and ye shall receive.
shafer@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) (10/04/89)
In article <212@v7fs1.UUCP> mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966)... Post 1966. The movie was in its first run during Apollo 13. The reporters ran around asking the astronauts' wives if they'd seen it yet and what did they think about it. I thought at the time that that was one of the tackiest things I'd ever seen on TV. Little did I know .... A few years ago Fred Haise told me that neither he nor his wife had ever seen the movie. -- Mary Shafer shafer@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer NASA Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA Of course I don't speak for NASA
fisher@moon.dec.com (10/04/89)
In article <3743@rtech.rtec.com> reb writes: > In article <1989Sep29.164653.29049@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > >In article <212@v7fs1.UUCP> mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: > >>:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966)... > >>:Movie buffs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the rescue > >>:craft was even a lifting-body vehicle... > >>Yep, it was an X-20 "Dyna-soar" launched by a Titan... > >Titan, yes; Dyna-soar, no. It was an "XRV" experimental USAF lifting body. > >(Dyna-soar had wings.) I don't know offhand whether the "XRV" ever existed; > >I suspect not. > > I remember the movie (The book was good too!) and I doubt anything like the > ship ever existed except on paper or in the movie. > reb > > On a clear disk reb@rtech.com *or* reb%rtech.com@lll-winken.llnl.GOV > you can seek forever h:861 Washington Ave Westwood, NJ 07675 h:201-666-9207 > > ASCII and ye shall receive. Well, I'm not sure I understand the sense of the last couple of replies, regarding "the ship" but... The book and the movie were significantly different. In the book, it was a hypothetical Mecury 7 which was stranded, and they rescued it with a never-before-flown Titan/Gemini. I think they had to pull a boilerplate Gemini and replace it with a flyable one from the manufacturer, thus giving the tension. In the movie, it was a Gemini or an Apollo that was stranded (I think I remember three people), and they sent up some sort of thing which I always thought was a Dyna-Soar, but I'm willing to be corrected by reb. Burns Fisher
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (10/04/89)
In article <1511@hiatus.dec.com> fisher@moon.dec.com writes: >> >>:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966)... > >The book and the movie were significantly different. In the book, it was >a hypothetical Mecury 7 which was stranded, and they rescued it with a >never-before-flown Titan/Gemini... ... In the movie, it was a Gemini or >an Apollo that was stranded (I think I remember three people), and they >sent up some sort of thing which I always thought was a Dyna-Soar... You've missed a key fact: there were, in fact, two versions of the book. (I read both.) The original was indeed a long-duration Mercury [such things were planned but never flown] rescued by a Vostok and a Gemini. The book was later rewritten to match the movie, which updated the choice of spacecraft to match the progress of spaceflight. The revised version had a Skylab crew [although that name was not used, as it had not been chosen at the time] in an Apollo CSM rescued by a Soyuz and an "X-RV (the orbital version of the X-24A lifting body spacecraft)" [quote from the foreword of the revised edition, which I have]. -- Nature is blind; Man is merely | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology shortsighted (and improving). | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
Mike.Pompura@f49.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Pompura) (10/04/89)
Could it have been the HERPES...oops, the HERMES design launched atop an Arianne vehicle that you are describing? I'm coming in on the tail end of this... -- Fidonet: Mike Pompura via 1:363/9 Internet: Mike.Pompura@f49.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG UUCP: uunet!sceard!tarpit!libcmp!mamab!49!Mike.Pompura
mike@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Mike Smithwick) (10/10/89)
In article <1511@hiatus.dec.com> fisher@moon.dec.com writes: >In article <3743@rtech.rtec.com> reb writes: >> In article <1989Sep29.164653.29049@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry >Spencer) writes: >> >In article <212@v7fs1.UUCP> mvp@v7fs1.UUCP (Mike Van Pelt) writes: >> >>:In the movie ``Marooned'' (circa 1966)... >> >>:Movie buffs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the rescue >> >>:craft was even a lifting-body vehicle... >> >>Yep, it was an X-20 "Dyna-soar" launched by a Titan... >> >Titan, yes; Dyna-soar, no. It was an "XRV" experimental USAF lifting body. >> >(Dyna-soar had wings.) I don't know offhand whether the "XRV" ever existed; >> >I suspect not. >The book and the movie were significantly different. In the book, it was >a hypothetical Mecury 7 which was stranded, and they rescued it with a >never-before-flown Titan/Gemini. I think they had to pull a boilerplate >Gemini and replace it with a flyable one from the manufacturer, thus giving >the tension. In the movie, it was a Gemini or an Apollo that was stranded >(I think I remember three people), and they sent up some sort of thing which >I always thought was a Dyna-Soar, but I'm willing to be corrected by >reb. > >Burns Fisher As I recall (which isn't saying much), the crew was onboard a Skylab for several months. It was decided to bring them down early due to psycological (?) problems. After undocking, the SPS engine failed, hence no entry. The US had no ability to launch a rescue in time, before the oxygen would run out for the crew of 3. Were there only two astronauts, there might be enough left. One of the crewmen goes EVA to supposedly take a look at the engine, then (pull out the hankies) rips his suit to commit suicide (making it look like at accident) giving his comrades enough oxygen to make it. They end up being rescued by a Soviet cosmonaut in a Vostok, not a Soyuz as Henry said (unless I have a mental parity error, I remember clearly the conical rear of the Vostok re-entry engine, encircled by the small cryo tanks. I said to myself at the time "Why are they using a Vostok?". I was only 13 or so.) I did read the later version of the book that came out with the movie, but don't remember anything about that except the astros comments about re-entry "That was one hell of a kick in the ass!". I think that two of the astronauts were played by Gene Hackman and Richard Crenna. While we're on the subject, anyone see the kids film "Stowaway to the Moon?". In it a 10 year old boy stows away in an Apollo and ends up saving the mission. The CMP came down with the flu in lunar orbit while the LM in on the surface. The kid had to help him during the docking and saved his life when he vomited in his helmet which he was wearing to get extra oxygen to help his sickness. For being a children's film it was very well done, much better than many so-called "serious" movies. They used authentic mockups, not merely control panels decorated with christmas-tree lights like many a sci-fi film. They had a half-way plausible scenerio as to how he was able to get on board and hide (An old man he knew used to own part of the cape area. When the government bought it from him, he was given special access to portions of his old property for fishing. The kid disguised himself as the old man, borrowed his boat, so security let him by. He then donned a hard had, took a tool-box and made up a phoney picture badge that would just look good enough on the black-and-white security cameras on the pad.) *** mike smithwick *** "Los Angeles : Where neon goes to die" [disclaimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas]
carpenc@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Cory Carpenter) (10/12/89)
In article <33321@ames.arc.nasa.gov> mike@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Mike Smithwick) writes: >While we're on the subject, anyone see the kids film "Stowaway to the >Moon?". In it a 10 year old boy stows away in an Apollo and ends up >saving the mission. The CMP came down with the flu in lunar orbit while >the LM in on the surface. The kid had to help him during the docking >and saved his life when he vomited in his helmet which he was wearing to >get extra oxygen to help his sickness. > >For being a children's film it was very well done, much better >than many so-called "serious" movies. > >They used authentic mockups, not merely control panels decorated with >christmas-tree lights like many a sci-fi film. They had a half-way >plausible scenerio as to how he was able to get on board and hide >(An old man he knew used to own part of the cape area. When the government >bought it from him, he was given special access to portions of his old >property for fishing. The kid disguised himself as the old man, borrowed >his boat, so security let him by. He then donned a hard had, took a >tool-box and made up a phoney picture badge that would just look good >enough on the black-and-white security cameras on the pad.) > > > > *** mike smithwick *** Mike-- Nope. I don't recall that movie. However, I do remember reading a book (a substantial number of years ago) that was very likely the basis for the film. It's been so long that I can't even recall the title, but the plot matches up pretty well with your summary from the movie... with a few exceptions ;-) (I seem to recall quite a bit of plot-building in the book, such as the kid and a couple of his friends building a life-size mockup of an Apollo command module; the old man carving a grip for their OME stick and teaching them how to catch stingrays and stamp out little circles of 'ray meat to sell to restaurants as "scallops.") The thing I remember best from the book is the old man explaining to the kids why he called the outboard motor on his boat a "kicker" -- you had to kick it a couple of times before starting it "once to mix the fuel, and once to show it who's boss." --CRC Coryc Carpenter Sequent Computer Systems {ogccse,tektronix}!sequent!coryc orstcs!jacobs!carpenc "I may know what I'm saying, but my employer doesn't!"