packer@chrpserv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) (01/11/90)
In the course of seeing innumerable pictures of the shuttle riding on the back of the 747 over the years, I gradually became aware of something missing in the media coverage of the shuttle: there was never a picture of the actual process of lifting the shuttle onto the back of the 747. Every other event in the mission cycle seemed to be well- covered and well-photographed. Eventually I obtained a catalog of NASA photos, found that there were two from 1977 about a "Mate-Demate" facility, and ordered a print of one of them. Later, while doing a study of another subject using back issues of the NY Times, I found that they did publish one photo of the facility-- in 1977. I learned of the NASA catalog at the souvenir shop at Goddard Space Flight Center, where I first went in my search. There they have a clever book titled something like "The Space Shuttle: An Operator's Manual," which has a wealth of pictures and charts of every aspect of the shuttle's construction and operation. A chapter in the back, titled "Support Facilities", has a picture of the mobile platform that carries the shuttle/ booster combination out to the launch pad. There is also a section on the 747, describing how it was modified to hold the weight of the shuttle, complete with a drawing identifying each modification. There is not even any mention of the mate-demate facility! In any case, there's an opportunity here for some alert psychologist to do an experiment to test people's understanding of engineering principles: ask them how the shuttle is placed on the 747. It's unlikely that they've seen the photo, so they won't =know= how it's done, but it's a =problem= they can understand, having (most likely) seen many pictures of the completed result. I myself imagined a mobile crane, picking up the shuttle and moving on wheels to the 747.
kclenden@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Kevin Clendenien) (01/11/90)
In article <675@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@chrpserv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes: >In any case, there's an opportunity here for some alert >psychologist to do an experiment to test people's understanding >of engineering principles: ask them how the shuttle is >placed on the 747. It's unlikely that they've seen the >photo, so they won't =know= how it's done, but it's a >=problem= they can understand, having (most likely) seen >many pictures of the completed result. I myself imagined >a mobile crane, picking up the shuttle and moving on wheels >to the 747. Well, I don't know how they do it, but the shuttle is awfully heavy to be carried by a mobile crane. My guess would be that a stationary crane, or one that was effectively stationary, lifts the shuttle up, and then the 747 is moved underneath the shuttle. Once this is done, then the crane lowers the shuttle onto the 747. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- kclenden@silver.bacs.indiana.edu Kevin Clendenien BLoomington Atari ST users group BLAST, President BLAST BBS - (812) 332-0573 FNET node #141
packer@chrpserv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) (01/11/90)
That's exactly how they do it. The facility is more than just a crane--it's a huge framework that is cantilevered out far enough so that the 747 faces forward into it.
pubtendr@xroads.UUCP (Steve Roberson) (01/12/90)
I have seen some pictures of the 'crane' which is used to lift the shuttle (but not in operation). I can't remember where, probably on TV. It looked like a non-moveable structure to me. Rather like a large box of girders which totally enclosed the shuttle while lifting it What happens with the wings of the 747 I don't know. I have some video disks from Space Archive, etc. and NONE of them have anything on this either. IS THIS A COVER-UP? -- \ / C r o s s r o a d s C o m m u n i c a t i o n s /\ (602) 941-2005 300|1200 Baud 24 hrs/day / \ hplabs!hp-sdd!crash!xroads!pubtendr
amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michielsen) (01/12/90)
In article <679@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@chrpserv.UUCP (Charles Packer) writes: >That's exactly how they do it. The facility is more than >just a crane--it's a huge framework that is cantilevered >out far enough so that the 747 faces forward into it. If your really interested, and can't get out to the left coast to see this sucker. NASA has some terribly beautiful pictures of this guy, bare and in different stages of being used. Including the finished mating ready to be rolled out. These pictures are available through the Public information or affairs office. I don't have any of the series or reference numbers, sorry. Last time I was at the KSC Spaceport - junk ware - / - rip off facility *-> they did have a few of the more major photos for sale as slides & various sized prints. (Honestly they weren't priced badly compared to typical tourist trap deals..., and the quality was very good.) As I recall, there used to be several large 24x36 or so prints, picto-graphs, & paintings in the upstairs display area of this process. al
packer@chrpserv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) (01/12/90)
In article <920@xroads.UUCP> pubtendr@xroads.UUCP (Steve Roberson) writes: > >the 747 I don't know. I have some video disks from Space Archive, etc. and >NONE of them have anything on this either. > >IS THIS A COVER-UP? >-- At first I thought the media ignored this part of the mission cycle becuase it contradicted the symbolism of the spacecraft to show it dominated by a huge ugly structure like that, but now I'd consider an alternate theory: that they don't show the crane because it's a huge ugly structure, period.
binkley@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Rob -Not from Bloom County- Binkley) (01/12/90)
You want pictures? I can get you pictures. They are sold through the gift shop here at Dryden...from post cards to some 16" X 20" laser prints. If interested, I can probably get you a mail order catalog... Right now I am sitting about 500 yards from the Mate-Demate Facility. It is a large fixed facility here at Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility at Edwards Air Force Base in southern California. I don't think I am properly qualified to conduct a technical discussion on its operation... (Mary...?) Robert Binkley - NASA Ames-Dryden FLight Research Facility binkley@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov
hoyme@SRC.Honeywell.COM (Ken Hoyme) (01/13/90)
Yes, the mate-demate facility is not mobile. If you really want pictures, go to KSC, take the shuttle facilities bus tour, and take your own. When I went on this, they took to bus out on the shuttle landing strip right near the mate-demate facility. It was a point where we were allowed to get off the bus. This was quite a few years ago, (>5), so I claim no knowledge of current tour routes. The really interesting mechanical lift problems occur if they ever abort to one of the alternate landing sites without a permanent mate-demate device. I worked on a shuttle support contract back in '83-'84 where we got into discussions as to how they would get the shuttle back to KSC if it ended up in Africa. As I recall, the would need to ship a heavy portable crane and pour a concrete pad for support so that they could lift it on to the 747. There were only a couple of cranes in the world that could be diasassembled, flown there and have the lift capability. There would be a couple of weeks delay while they did this. (And an obviously circuitous route back to the states) Ken Hoyme Honeywell Systems and Research Center (612)782-7354 3660 Technology Dr., Minneapolis, MN 55418 Internet: hoyme@src.honeywell.com
dant@mrloog.WR.TEK.COM (Dan Tilque) (01/13/90)
packer@chrpserv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes: >In the course of seeing innumerable pictures of the shuttle >riding on the back of the 747 over the years, I gradually >became aware of something missing in the media coverage >of the shuttle: there was never a picture of the actual >process of lifting the shuttle onto the back of the 747. >Every other event in the mission cycle seemed to be well- >covered and well-photographed. Well this is actually a tabu subject for newspapers. They may occasionally mention mating/demating of necessity, but they won't show pictures. I suppose you could find pictures in Playshuttle magazine, but I don't read that kind of stuff. One wonders what they would do if they'd made a movie about the shuttle back in the 50's: "Ok, now it's time for the mating, pan the camera over to the window and show the curtains blowing in the breeze." "But there are no curtain on the mating facility." "Well, we'd better put some on, hadn't we?" [For those who don't know it, a standard symbol of sex in the bedroom for movies up until the late 60's was to pan the camera over to the windows and show the curtains blowing in the breeze. If they were on the beach, they showed waves.] --- Dan Tilque -- dant@mrloog.WR.TEK.COM "The Mars mission won't be cheap -- the cost is currently estimated at $400 billion, not including reality -- but the potential benefits are enormous. For openers, we will earn as a nation, more than 500 million Frequent Flyer miles." -- Dave Barry
rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) (01/14/90)
Wouldn't it be simpler to just have the shuttle land on top of the 747? And when the 747 lands in Florida, they could just jam the breaks on to stop suddenly and let the shuttle's momentum pull it forward off the 747! :-) Robert
lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) (01/19/90)
Heh. Just as we finish discussing this, Discover magazine puts out a photo spread on Shuttle reprocessing. Guess what they have a big picture of, guys. Larry Wall lwall@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov