yost@bty.UUCP (05/29/87)
> Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I don`t mind at all having employees of > various vendors discuss the relative merits of their systems, as well as > having users of those systems discuss them. I would be very interested > in Tom's evaluation of the differences (note DIFFERENCES not necessarily > better or worse) between various systems in different environments and > for different applications. > > [edited] > > Steven I would like to see this newsgroup earn its keep on the net -- to date it has been pretty useless in my opinion. I am currently evaluating databases and 4GLs for my company. If my decision turns out to be a bad one, I'm gonna hear about it and pay for it not only with my credibility but also with my applications. My company has been developing applications with the Informix database and C programs for the past five years. I want to trade this environment for a newer, more productive one, namely a 4GL. I have been evaluating 4GLs and have tentatively decided on ACCELL from Unify Corp. Some of the others I looked at were Informix-4GL, Progress, Pro-IV, APPGEN, and even FilePro-16. My evaluation methods are basically reading the manuals and trying demos if available. I'd be happy to post my opinions about these products. I'm hoping that I can get some feedback from people who are more intimately familiar with them, just as I am intimately familiar with the Informix/C environment. I don't care if they work for a database company or not. I'm especially interested in hearing about ACCELL and Unify. Steven, are you listening? I cannot believe that with all those UNIX people out there on the net, no one is interested in talking about databases. I thought that people bought more UNIX systems for database applications than for any other type of application. If this is true, where the hell is everybody? Well, I'm going on vacation now, I'll check back here in about a week. Brian Yost {bellcore,ihnp4}!motown!bty!yost Micro Business Associates One Maple Avenue Netcong, NJ 07857
mikem@athena.TEK.COM (Michael E. Meyer) (06/01/87)
I, for one, would be interested in having a discussion about databases related to engineering. Perhaps it should really be a discussion about data management (databases only being a part of the solution). What products are out there? What are the problems that we agree need to be solved? Comments? -- Michael E. Meyer (503) 629-1553 CAE Systems Division T E K T R O N I X, Inc. Beaverton, OR USA 97076 Committed to Excellence
itkin@bene.UUCP (Steven List) (06/02/87)
In article <332@bty.UUCP> yost@bty.UUCP writes: >My company has been developing applications with the Informix database >and C programs for the past five years. I want to trade this environment >for a newer, more productive one, namely a 4GL. I have been evaluating >4GLs and have tentatively decided on ACCELL from Unify Corp. Some of the >others I looked at were Informix-4GL, Progress, Pro-IV, APPGEN, and even >FilePro-16. I went through much of the same kind of process during the past year. As I said in my previous posting, we've been working with Unify (since they were NAT - North American Technologies) and have been consistently satisfied. That doesn't mean that I don't recognize that there are other systems and that it behooves us to be aware of them. >My evaluation methods are basically reading the manuals and trying demos >if available. I'd be happy to post my opinions about these products. >... >I'm especially interested in hearing about ACCELL and Unify. Steven, are >you listening? Of course I'm listening! How could I possibly pass up a command performance like this. The culmination of my latest research into DBMS systems, with particular emphasis on 4GL's, application generators, and user interfaces, occurred at Unix Expo in New York City (my natal city, unfortunately) in October of 1986. Before, at, and after UnixExpor, I've reviewed/read about/worked with: Progress Pro-IV APPGEN Informix Z-Four Unify Accell Oracle DataFlex Zanthe ... Here are some very brief impressions and opinions (mine - not my employers or coworkers). Please note that since I'd seen ACCELL first in my search, and been VERY impressed, the others were evaluated by comparison. Progress - very flexible database, good interface, but lacking the zip and flash of ACCELL. No pop-up windows, nor anything like the ZOOMVIEWtm feature. Their own proprietary language, as opposed to SQL, which is pretty well accepted as the standard. Pro-IV - VERY primitive user interface. Good application kernel, but single threaded through one process (or am I wrong here?). I was very concerned with the appearance of finished applications, and this just didn't cut it. APPGEN - much the same comments as with Pro-IV. Primitive user interface, and not all that much to recommend it. Informix - I'll only comment on a couple of areas here. 1) Separate files for tables and indexes. Our application has over 200 tables. That's a lot of file opening and closing. 2) As with Progress and several others, a flexible database structure allowing for the dynamic modification of the schema costs in performance. Unify's (and therefore ACCELL's) "file system" was designed for high performance. Yes there are some costs associated with the fixed block approach of UNIFY, but if your need is performance, it can't be beat. 3) User interface - as of UnixExpo, they were about to release a windowing capability in Informix-4GL. I have no experience with this. 4) Everything is programmed. Windows, help text, menus, and so on. One of the goals in looking around was to find a better way to produce applications. I WILL NOT rehash the dispute between Unify and Informix about "application generators" versus "true 4GL's". Suffice it to say that Informix-4GL is more powerful in a number of ways IF YOU ARE A PROGRAMMER. ACCELL has great advantages in that you can truly build a simple to moderate application without any programming. Z-Four - a different and interesting approach. As with Progress, they have invented their own language. Here, the language is screen driven - you fill in the blanks. Everything from schema design through interface and report design is done this way. Another flexible file system. Oracle - I'm not very up on Oracle. Their application generator interface was very similar to ACCELL's in the visuals and apparent power. The drawbacks with which I'm familiar are that it's single threaded through a kernel and fairly slow. The rest didn't compare enough to be memorable for me. Obviously, these are my impressions. I am still a loyal Unify and ACCELL fan. The ACCELL interface is slick, snazzy, and reasonably easy to use. Of course, I'm a programmer, and find it very comprehensible. Our Executive VP originally built our entire GL/AP/AR system using Unify and their Enter program. He redid it using ACCELL with very little help from me. While the appearance is not what I'd have designed, it works very well and HE DID IT ON HIS OWN. And he is definitely NOT a techie! Well, that's it. I'm willing to carry on debates, discussions, or just exchanges of information with any/all of you that have an interest. And yost - I hope this helps. If you want to exchange mail, I can get into greater depth about Unify and ACCELL. Or give me a call at (415) 940-6312. Steven -- {cdp,garth,idi,oliveb,opusys,pyramid,tolerant}!bene!steven
kimcm@olamb.UUCP (Kim Chr. Madsen) (06/03/87)
In article <332@bty.UUCP>, yost@bty.UUCP writes: > I cannot believe that with all those UNIX people out there on the net, > no one is interested in talking about databases. I thought that people > bought more UNIX systems for database applications than for any other > type of application. If this is true, where the hell is everybody? Doing their job and too busy to keep up schedule to write articles yet alone read them (-; Regards Kim Chr. Madsen