einstein@bucsb.UUCP (David K. Fickes) (01/16/88)
I'm working with several different projects and am find that I am being asked to recommend or comment on rather specific questions regarding database products. At this point, I research these questions through material I've received or publication reviews and make calls to various contacts within certain database companies. What I would like to create is a list of person working for organizations such as Sybase, Oracle, Relational Technologies, Informix... (don't feel insulted if you were left out :) who would be willing to receive Email queries concerning their products.. (mostly, pre-purchase questions) Sales reps would be fine if they don't mind getting tech questions and of course I will probably be using a mail list to inform everyone that such and so is looking for a system so they can use my messages as sales leads... Any takers?? - david -- ============================================================================== David K. Fickes Center for Einstein Studies/Einstein Papers Project UUCP: ...harvard!bu-cs!bucsb!einstein Boston University BITNET: oth932@bostonu 745 Commonwealth Avenue PHONE: (617) 353-9249 (617) 277-9741 Boston, MA 02215
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (01/19/88)
I think it would be nice if commercial vendors all had a mailbox named
"queries", or something. Then, whenever we had a pre-purchase technical
question, we could just send Email to queries@oracle, or whatever,
and be sure that the query would get bumped to the right person, and
we'd get an answer via email.
lee
yost@bty.UUCP (Brian Yost) (01/22/88)
> I think it would be nice if commercial vendors all had a mailbox named > "queries", or something. Then, whenever we had a pre-purchase technical > question, we could just send Email to queries@oracle, or whatever, > and be sure that the query would get bumped to the right person, and > we'd get an answer via email. > > lee I agree. Many decision makers must devote a substantial amount of time and effort evaluating the various products. Technical, low-hype-content articles by the database vendors would justify the expense of of the rest of net at my site. Is this appropriate usage of USENET? If not, perhaps ATTMAIL or UUNET could serve as an alternative. I'm sure the database vendors recognize the marketing potential here... right, guys? :-) Brian T. Yost attmail!bty!yost {bellcore,harpo,princeton}!motown!bty!yost
einstein@bucsb.UUCP (David K. Fickes) (01/26/88)
In article <388@bty.UUCP> yost@bty.UUCP (Brian Yost) writes: >> I think it would be nice if commercial vendors all had a mailbox named >> "queries", or something. ..... {deleted text} > >I agree. Many decision makers must devote a substantial amount of time and >effort evaluating the various products. Technical, low-hype-content articles >by the database vendors would justify the expense of of the rest of net at >my site. Is this appropriate usage of USENET? Perhaps a better attack would be to get people who work with the product volunteer to handle database questions... AND get someone within the company that sells the product to handle questions such as pricing and such.... So far I've been contacted by two individuals who gave me their sales rep's Email address, one sales rep who called... and one person who volunteered to handle the random tech question.... - david-- ============================================================================== David K. Fickes Center for Einstein Studies/Einstein Papers Project UUCP: ...harvard!bu-cs!bucsb!einstein Boston University BITNET: oth932@bostonu 745 Commonwealth Avenue PHONE: (617) 353-9249 (617) 277-9741 Boston, MA 02215
kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) (01/31/88)
In article <30175UH2@PSUVM> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: >I think it would be nice if commercial vendors all had a mailbox named >"queries", or something. Then, whenever we had a pre-purchase technical >question, we could just send Email to queries@oracle, or whatever, >and be sure that the query would get bumped to the right person, and >we'd get an answer via email. > > lee > I would be happy to set up such a service for mdbs products. We sell: KMAN (a relational db environment), Guru ( An expert system development environment) MDBS III (a high performance post-relational dbms.) They currently runs on msdos, unix, vms and os/2. I am the manager of customer support and quality assurance for mdbs products, so I am in a good position to see that such "queries" get *bumped* to the right person. I am not that versed in how to use usenet but am enthusiastic about learning how to set up such a service for those of you who are interested. Micro Data Base Systems Inc. P.O. Box 248 Lafayette, IN 47902 (317) 463-2581
lyndon@ncc.UUCP (Lyndon Nerenberg) (02/02/88)
In article <813@mdbs.UUCP>, kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) writes: | In article <30175UH2@PSUVM> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: | >I think it would be nice if commercial vendors all had a mailbox named | >"queries", or something. Then, whenever we had a pre-purchase technical | >question, we could just send Email to queries@oracle, or whatever, | >and be sure that the query would get bumped to the right person, and | >we'd get an answer via email. | > | > lee | > | I would be happy to set up such a service for mdbs products. | We sell: | KMAN (a relational db environment), | Guru ( An expert system development environment) | MDBS III (a high performance post-relational dbms.) | They currently runs on msdos, unix, vms and os/2. It's about time some of the database companies got off their collective posteriors and started providing e-mail support :-) If anyone has questions about empress 32/mbuilder, you might want to try Richard Kozicki at rhodnius!richard (via utzoo I think). [ He's gonna *kill* me for this :-) ] --lyndon
bobcoe@cca.CCA.COM (Robert K. Coe) (02/06/88)
In article <30175UH2@PSUVM> UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: >I think it would be nice if commercial vendors all had a mailbox named >"queries", or something. Then, whenever we had a pre-purchase technical >question, we could just send Email to queries@oracle, or whatever, >and be sure that the query would get bumped to the right person, and >we'd get an answer via email. > > lee OK, here we are (the "Model 204" people): _ _ ___ _ ____ COMPUTER queries@cca.CCA.COM _ ____ CORPORATION [...!]{decvax,linus,mirror}!cca!queries _ ____ OF AMERICA _______________________________________________________________________________ Bob Coe Director, Technology & Systems CCA -- *> Robert K. Coe | bobcoe@cca.cca.com <* *> Computer Corp. of America | [...!]{decvax,linus,mirror}!cca!bobcoe <* *> 4 Cambridge Center | 617-492-8860, ext. 428 <* *> Cambridge, Mass. 02142 | "Everyone should adopt a homeless dog." <*
cy@ashtate.UUCP (Cy Shuster) (02/11/88)
Although I can't speak officially for the company, I nevertheless know it to be true that Ashton-Tate provides pre- and post-sale support on both CompuServe (GO ASHFORUM) and on an in-house online service running on a, er, 80286-based host (OK, it's a PC BBS, but it works, right? It's even multiuser!). (213) 538-6196, 300/1200 8-N-1. Browse right away; just leave a request to be registered for full access. A key advantage of both sites is the availability of binaries for download, particularly now that many of the products have easily installable device drivers (i.e. Framework). This is, of course, more an advantage for post- sale support, rather than pre-sale, as was the original request; however, pre-sale questions are readily answered as well. By voice, Customer Service can be reached at (213) 329-8000. (begin pluglet) And don't forget to ask about object-oriented, mostly relational dBASE Mac! (end pluglet) --Cy-- UUCP: ...seismo!scgvaxd!ashtate!cy (Is seismo still out there?)
kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) (02/13/88)
Technical Support for mdbs products:
KMAN (a relational db envrionment),
GURU (an expert system development environment),
MDBS III (a post-relational high performance dbs)
(Our products run in VMS, UNIX, OS/2 and MSDOS.)
is available by emailing to:
support@mdbs.uucp
or
{rutgers,ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!pur-ee!mdbs!support
Kevin Castleberry
Manager mdbs Products Technical Information Center (TIC)
Micro Data Base Systems Inc.
P.O. Box 248
Lafayette, IN 47902
(317) 448-6187
For sales call: (317) 463-2581UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (02/15/88)
In article <823@mdbs.UUCP>, kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) says: > >MDBS III (a post-relational high performance dbs) ~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~ | What does this mean?
rbradbur@oracle.UUCP (Robert Bradbury) (02/18/88)
In article <33672UH2@PSUVM>, UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: > In article <823@mdbs.UUCP>, kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) says: > > > >MDBS III (a post-relational high performance dbs) > ~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~ > | > What does this mean? > It means the vendor has developed a non-standard interface to a database which represents their view of how a user should interact with his/her data. It also means that under the pretense of providing a better interface the vendor stands a good chance of locking you into their product. (How do you spell IMS? MVS? etc. ...) I'm only giving half a smiley on the above because it is one of my pet peeves. There are probably a dozen different "common" database products across UNIX and MSDOS machines. Applications written in one product have little or no portability to a different product. The result is that you are locked into that vendor, can't follow the improvements in hardware/software technology as quickly as you might be able to and scream bloody murder all over the net when you discover you can't migrate from version 3 of the xyz product to version 4 without 5 man-years of re-coding. I'm always amazed at the number of people who carry a UNIX bible in one hand and a proprietary dbms manual in the other. The terms "post-relational" and "4GL" have no "real" definitions. People who believe all that advertising hype had better be prepared to spend a long cold winter in the cabin with that vendor. This is not to say that SQL is an ultimate solution (after all we have seen enough debate about what SQL can't do). I do feel that it is a good place to start and will evolve as people become more aware of its limitations and push for a more robust language. At the current time though SQL is the only thing which gives you a fighting chance of coding portable applications. All of this is not to dump on MDBS, it at least runs on MSDOS, UNIX and VMS which is a great deal more than DBase can do. That at least gives you a fighting chance of migrating your application to more powerful machines and O.S. as your needs grow. -- Robert Bradbury Oracle Corporation (206) 784-9726 hplabs!oracle!rbradbur
rpick@ucqais.UUCP (Roger Pick) (02/22/88)
In article <33672UH2@PSUVM>, UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: > In article <823@mdbs.UUCP>, kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) says: > > > >MDBS III (a post-relational high performance dbs) > ~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~ > | > What does this mean? > Like the term relational, post-relational is used by marketing types to mean a lot of different things. Often, it is used to refer to some sort of semantic data model which can directly express relationships and constraints difficult to express using just the constructs of the relational data model. I would consider that to be an appropriate use of the term. In the case that you ask about, it is used to suggest they have something new. What they actually have in MDBS III is a useful extension of the network data model. MDBS III directly supports many-to-many CODASYL DBTG sets (rather than merely one-to-many and one-to-one). I think that the justification given by MDBS for their terminology is that they support the relational model using records without sets. With sets, and especially with many-to-many sets, they are "post-relational." Of course, this is silly. In spite of the abuse of terminology, MDBS has very high quality products for certain situations. They are primarily aimed at the application developer. They decided to provide high functionality at the expense of 'friendliness.' -- Roger Alan Pick - QA & Information Systems Department, University of Cincinnati UUCP: {decuac,psuvax1!gatech!mit-eddie,philabs!phri,pyramid}!uccba!ucqais!rpick INTERNET: rpick@ucqais.uc.edu VOICE: (513) 475-7166 POST: QAIS - Lindner Hall, Univ. Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio 45221-0130 USA
UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) (02/23/88)
In article <244@oracle.UUCP>, rbradbur@oracle.UUCP (Robert Bradbury) says: > >In article <33672UH2@PSUVM>, UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: >> In article <823@mdbs.UUCP>, kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) says: >> > >> >MDBS III (a post-relational high performance dbs) >> ~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~ >> | >> What does this mean? >> > >It means the vendor has developed a non-standard interface to a database >which represents their view of how a user should interact with his/her data. >It also means that under the pretense of providing a better interface >the vendor stands a good chance of locking you into their product. >(How do you spell IMS? MVS? etc. ...) > I asked the "what is post-relational" question, and this answer--"a non- standard interface"--seems to be right. I got another very useful answer from another person, but my mail software couldn't find the return path. In the specific case of MDB it is unfair to group it with IMS or other *older* products. It seems to be a very modern Extended Network model. It would probably have been more accurate of Mdbs to call it post-network instead of post-relational. Naturally, as a network dbms, MDBS offers record and link navigation commands, but according to their literature, they also support "nonprocedural structured English requests". I haven't seen it, though. It is perfectly reasonable to build a high level relational language over the top of a network system. Maybe MDBS has done a good job, maybe not. Its strengths, as advertised, seem to be (1) available for pcdos, unix, xenix, ultrix, unos, and various LANs, (2) direct support of logical models including many-to-many and subtype-hierarchies (inheritance?), (3) interfaces with their spreadsheet and rules-driven expert system (GURU), (4) transaction logging, rollback, and error recovery, (5) record locking. They also claim to have delivered SQL for PCDOS in 1983. I also happen to know that Solomon, one of the best accounting packages available, is written in MDBSIII. Ramble, ramble, ramble 8-) In summary, from what I've seen, these guys look like good scouts. lee
greg@mdbs.UUCP (Greg Feldman) (02/26/88)
> >In article <33672UH2@PSUVM>, UH2@PSUVM.BITNET (Lee Sailer) writes: >> In article <823@mdbs.UUCP>, kbc@mdbs.UUCP (Kevin Castleberry) says: >> > >> >MDBS III (a post-relational high performance dbs) >> ~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~ >> | >> What does this mean? >> > > >Like the term relational, post-relational is used by marketing types >to mean a lot of different things. Often, it is used to refer to >some sort of semantic data model which can directly express >relationships and constraints difficult to express using just the >constructs of the relational data model. I would consider that ^^^^^^^^^^^ True. Another reason for the term is the network design came after the relational design. Frankly, I use the term "extended-network". To me that better conveys the meaning "we have things (recursive sets, forked sets, many-to-many sets) that CODASYL networks don't". By the way, MDBS had to come up with both these terms (post-relational, extend network) because when we invented MDBS III, they didn't exist :-). >to be an appropriate use of the term. In the case that you ask about, . . . > >In spite of the abuse of terminology, MDBS has very high quality >products for certain situations. ^^^^^ Appreciate that :-). >They are primarily aimed at the application developer. They decided >to provide high functionality at the expense of 'friendliness.' >-- >Roger Alan Pick - QA & Information Systems Department, University of Cincinnati Greg Feldman--MDBS (317) 448-6187 UUCP: {rutgers,ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!pur-ee!mdbs!support Note: "These are my opinions, who else would come up with this?"