erics@cognos.uucp (Eric Schurr) (05/18/88)
Is anyone using Informix 4GL? I most interested in VAX users, but any user is of interest to me. I understand it generates C code--does this work well? Please E-mail your response. Thanks. -- Eric Schurr 3755 Riverside Dr. Cognos Incorporated Ottawa, Ontario decvax!utzoo!dciem! (613) 738-1440 CANADA K1G 3N3 nrcaer!cognos!erics
ed@ntmtka.UUCP (Ed Tripet) (06/01/88)
In article <3028@cognos.UUCP> erics@cognos.UUCP (Eric Schurr) writes: > >Is anyone using Informix 4GL? I most interested in VAX users, but >any user is of interest to me. I understand it generates C code--does >this work well? > Informix 4GL will first generate Informix-ESQL/C code and then generate C code. The code that is generated works very well, BUT the amount of code it generates is very discouraging. The advantage of using Informix-4GL is that you can create a flashy application in a relatively short amount of time. The language is very easy to use (somewhat like BASIC) and easy to understand what the original programmer was trying to do (somewhat like COBOL). The disadvantage of using Informix-4GL is the amount of code it generates. A program that prints "Hello Sailor" will generate an executable file that is close to 100K. However, the file does not continue to grow at this rate. I have a directory program that is about 150-300 lines and one form screen that is about 150K. We mainly use Informix-ESQL/C for our applications and use Informix-SQL for any "back door" access to our databases. We do find that Informix-4GL is nice for creating restrictive data entry applications as long as memory usage is kept at a minimum (i.e. arrays). Ed Tripet Northern Telecom Minnetonka, MN DISCLAIMER: All these opinions are MINE and nobody else's.
greggy@infmx.UUCP (greg yachuk) (06/02/88)
In article <1317@ntmtka.UUCP>, ed@ntmtka.UUCP (Ed Tripet) writes: >Informix 4GL will first generate Informix-ESQL/C code and then generate C code. >The code that is generated works very well, BUT the amount of code [...] >is very discouraging. Actually, we now have (has it been released yet? if not then ANY DAY NOW!) a version of Informix 4GL which generates P-code, which is then interpretted. The advantage, of course, is that the p-code files are smaller than the executables. You still take a hit (at runtime) for small programs, since all the DB access code is built into the interpretter, whether or not it is actually used. Also, it is slower (but you already knew that, didn't you?) as any interpretted system will be. Another advantage is our new debugger which works with the P-code. It allows source-level debugging on the 4GL code. You might want to look into it. I believe that the entire package is going under the name Rapid Development System (RDS) [no relation (I bet!) to our previous corporate name]. > Ed Tripet > Northern Telecom > Minnetonka, MN > DISCLAIMER: All these opinions are MINE and nobody else's. Greg Yachuk Informix Software Inc., Menlo Park, CA (415) 322-4100 {uunet,pyramid}!infmx!greggy !yes, I chose that login myself, wazit tooya? These opinions MIGHT be Informix's, but I wouldn't bet on it.
ambrose@iris.ucdavis.edu (Paul Ambrose) (06/03/88)
In article <215@infmx.UUCP> greggy@infmx.UUCP (greg yachuk) writes: >In article <1317@ntmtka.UUCP>, ed@ntmtka.UUCP (Ed Tripet) writes: >>Informix 4GL will first generate Informix-ESQL/C code and then generate C code. >>The code that is generated works very well, BUT the amount of code [...] >>is very discouraging. > >Actually, we now have (has it been released yet? if not then ANY DAY NOW!) *********************************************** >Greg Yachuk Informix Software Inc., Menlo Park, CA (415) 322-4100 It should be noted that Informix has been *promising* this product along with updates to its 4GL product for a long time. Moral of the story: Don't hold your breath for anything soon. Paul Ambrose
aland@infmx.UUCP (Dr. Scump) (06/08/88)
In article <704@vsi.UUCP>, sullivan@vsi.UUCP (Michael T Sullivan) writes: (I had mentioned that customers with maintenance contracts will be notified of the .03 updates as their ports are completed) > > This, of course, reminds of the time we were finally notified of an Informix > update several months after we had already bought it. We stumbled upon its > existence whilst making a bug report to the tech support people. > Good thing we found that bug, eh? > > -- > Michael Sullivan {uunet|attmail}!vsi!sullivan Point well taken -- you must be referring to the X.10.00 releases. In the past, there had been no consistent mechanism for making sure that notification of updates was sent to affected maintenance customers. A procedure to do so consistently was set up about a month or two after X.10.00 first shipped. (I know, cuz *I* wrote it. It even works!) We figured that a late notice was better than none at all. :-{ The Sun 3 ports are shipping now. A number of others are in progress. The Update information letters will go out as the corresponding ports are completed (the Sun 3 folks should receive theirs shortly). If any of you maintenance customers have moved, now is a good time to let our Tech Support department know your new address. -- Alan S. Denney | Informix Software, Inc. | {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland CAUTION: Objects on terminal are closer than they appear... Disclaimer: These opinions are mine alone. If I am caught or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of my actions.
dc@gcm (Dave Caswell) (09/18/88)
In article <473@pan.UUCP> jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) writes:
[More rambling complaints].
To the people at Informix:
There is no need to respond this rubbish. My opinion of your product
won't change just because there is one spoiled child out there somewhere.
Just ignore him. He isn't half as interested in filing bug reports as he
is in his own ego.
--
Dave Caswell
Greenwich Capital Markets uunet!philabs!gcm!dcbrianc@daedalus (Brian Colfer) (09/20/88)
In article <597@white.gcm> dc@white.UUCP (Dave Caswell) writes: >In article <473@pan.UUCP> jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) writes: > >[More rambling complaints]. > >To the people at Informix: >There is no need to respond this rubbish. My opinion of your product >won't change just because there is one spoiled child out there somewhere. >Just ignore him. He isn't half as interested in filing bug reports as he >is in his own ego. > >-- >Dave Caswell >Greenwich Capital Markets uunet!philabs!gcm!dc I love Informix-4GL. I think it is an expressive and powerful system. And I think Jamie get's too exicited in his/her criticisms and sometimes isn't always very careful ... like most of us are at times... :^) But I like seeing most of Jamie's vigorous criticism's because they relate to some important incremental improvements needed in Informix-4GL. So (Informix people) read what Jamie has to say and take what he/she says with a smallint of salt. :*) Also, for people new to 4GL or using thoes other DBMS's once again I love 4GL eve with it's blemishes. =============================================================================== Brian : UC San Francisco :...!{ucbvax,uunet}!daedalus.ucsf.edu!brianc Colfer : Dept. of Lab. Medicine : brianc@daedalus.ucsf.edu : PH. 415-476-2325 : BRIANC@UCSFCCA.BITNET ===============================================================================
bgolden@infmx.UUCP (Bernard Golden) (09/20/88)
In article <1364@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>, brianc@daedalus (Brian Colfer) writes: > In article <597@white.gcm> dc@white.UUCP (Dave Caswell) writes: > >In article <473@pan.UUCP> jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) writes: > > > >[More rambling complaints]. > > > I love Informix-4GL. I think it is an expressive and powerful system. > And I think Jamie get's too exicited in his/her criticisms and sometimes > isn't always very careful ... like most of us are at times... :^) > > But I like seeing most of Jamie's vigorous criticism's because they > relate to some important incremental improvements needed in > Informix-4GL. So (Informix people) read what Jamie has to say and > take what he/she says with a smallint of salt. :*) Thank you for your support. (:-) Many of us do monitor this newsgroup, and pay attention to the discussions. Regarding bugs: Each release contains fixes. How many depends upon time constraints, generally speaking. Naturally, we try to fix them in descending order of severity. While no software product is perfect, we pay a lot of attention to quality. Regarding features: A trade-off between number of features and time to market. Compounded by our ability to do enough high-quality releases, and customers' willingness to do installs (that is, customers only want to absorb releases every so often.) -b
jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) (09/21/88)
In article <597@white.gcm> dc@white.UUCP (Dave Caswell) writes: >In article <473@pan.UUCP> jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) writes: > >[More rambling complaints]. > >To the people at Informix: >There is no need to respond this rubbish. My opinion of your product >won't change just because there is one spoiled child out there somewhere. >Just ignore him. He isn't half as interested in filing bug reports as he >is in his own ego. Well, you may be right. But if anyone can prove that any of the recent bugs I have posted to the net are not in fact bugs, I will be surprised (and very pleased - I *have* to try to write an application with this thing). As for filing bug reports, I would be happy to, if there were only someplace to do so (other than the net). Informix's operation in Europe can be described as shaky, at best. They claim to have an office in Munich, but every time we try to call them, they either just moved the office, or they are just about to move the office, or everyone in the office is gone to a conference somewhere. They claim publicly that their U.S. office is willing to accept calls from Europe, but every time I try to call them I am told in no uncertain terms that they don't want phone calls from Europe. Some time ago they claimed, both here and in private email to me, that they were in the process of setting up an email address for bug reports; I have heard nothing since. The way I see it, I don't have a lot of options left. The best I can do now is to post the problems I find, in hopes that either someone will know of a solution, or at least I will save someone else from losing the amount of time that I have in discovering all this. So far, I have not seen a single solution to even one of the problems I have posted (excuses, coverups, and "known bug, to be fixed real soon" don't count). One person wrote to me and asked if I would please post all my bug complaints in a single article, to save others the time and trouble of skipping so many if they are not interested. I'm sorry, but that isn't possible, because I'm actually continuing to discover all this junk on a daily basis. That is the thing that has amazed me the most about Informix 4gl, in fact. With most software packages, there is a certain 'discovery period', during which you figure out the limits, quirks and bugs in the product. This usually takes something like a few days to a few weeks. Thereafter you can get about the task that you actually need to do. I have been writing Informix 4gl programs for well over 6 months now, and I am still discovering bugs, quirks, errors and inconsistency in the documentation, and every other kind of problem. There seems to be no end to the problems. jw
nikos@infmx.UUCP (Nikos Lambridis) (10/07/88)
In article <482@pan.UUCP>, jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) writes: > ... > As for filing bug reports, I would be happy to, if there were > only someplace to do so (other than the net). Informix's operation in > Europe can be described as shaky, at best. They claim to have an office > in Munich, but every time we try to call them, they either just moved > the office, or they are just about to move the office, or everyone in > the office is gone to a conference somewhere. ... I have become aware of Jamie's complaints just recently, and I would like to respond to them as briefly as possible: The German office employs 51 people. The company has 4 major departments: Sales, Marketing, Finance, and Customer Services; the Technical Support Dept. ia part of Customer Services. We have 7 engineers working on the phone. Our on-site machines include Sun, Nixdorf Targon 31, 32, T/A, Mannessmann, PCs, NCR Towers, and others. Other machine resources are available in London and in the U.S.A. headquarters. We receive an average of 260 calls a month. We currently answer 96% of the SMARTware calls in under 6 minutes and 71% of the Informix database product line calls in under 60 minutes. We are also responsible for Beta testing and QA of new products and the language translations thereafter. Our customers range from end-users to big software houses in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Greece, and some of France. To be more specific, we never heard from Jamie. He must have called about 1 year ago, when we were moving from our old tiny office to our new one. At the time our staff totaled 4 people!!! (as opposed to 51 now). I would be glad to help him and anyone else in our territory should they have a problem. If our engineers are not able to do it directly, we can find an answer within 24 hours. We welcome the calls and the challenge, so long as the people are legitimate customers with a maintenance agreement. The address of our office in Munich is: Informix GmbH Rosenkavalierplatz 14 D-8000 Munich West Germany Phone: (+49) 89-922030 Fax: (+49) 89-9102173 Telex: (841) 529339 Thank you all for your time, Nikos Lambridis Customer Services Manager Informix Germany -- Nikos Lambridis Manager, Customer Services Informix GmbH, Munich, FRG {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!nikos