blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) (12/08/88)
I am currently using Oracle on the MacIntosh, draft production version. It is a very solid beta, and the production dates are very near. it is a GREAT and unusual product combining the strengths of the Oracle Database Kernel,Oracle's networking capabilities, and a hypertalk interface which brings a whole new object-oriented approach to things.. At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN. Support for 3270 and LU6.2 SQL*NET is also coming. ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising. Its a great product, I love it and will never go back to my COMPAQ MSDOS world. -Ben Linder Oracle Advanced Services email: blinder%oracle@hplabs.hp.com uucp : hplabs!oracle!blinder
ded@kps.UUCP (David Edwards /DP) (12/09/88)
In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes: > > I am currently using Oracle on the MacIntosh, draft production version. >It is a very solid beta, and the production dates are very near. >it is a GREAT and unusual product combining the strengths of the >Oracle Database Kernel,Oracle's networking capabilities, >and a hypertalk interface which brings a whole new object-oriented approach >to things.. > Sounds interesting. We use oracle with PRO-C interface for the batch programs, and sqlforms for screens. I don't know anything about hypercard from a technical point of view. Can you elaborate on what the object-oriented approach brings to oracle specifically? Can you avoid using sqlforms, for example by using hypercard instead? How compact is the code incomparison to C? Are there things that are hard to do in C that are easy in hypercard in connection with database applications? > At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing >databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN. Support for 3270 and LU6.2 >SQL*NET is also coming. > I don't want you to risk blatant advertising, but, hey, am I really missing anything? David Edwards Kuwait Petroleum Sweden Stockholm Sweden
davek@rtech.rtech.com (Dave Kellogg) (12/10/88)
In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes: [miscellaneous self-back-patting omitted] >ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising. I would humbly submit that the above phrase is an oxymoron. ;-). ----------------------------- David Kellogg Relational Technology New York "Surprise, surprise, surprise" -- G. Pyle, USMC
blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) (12/11/88)
From: davek@rtech.rtech.com (Dave Kellogg) Organization: Relational Technology New York City >In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes: >[miscellaneous self-back-patting omitted] >>ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising. >I would humbly submit that the above phrase is an oxymoron. ;-). WELL, DAVE LOOK HERE - I have gotten mail regarding my posting on Oracle for the MAC claiming that I was indeed advertising. That was not my intent, I was simply offering my observation of the product to someone who asked. I stated FACTS. If that is advertising, maybe we should ban all discussion of pre-production software by employees of database companies. Somehow, I think this newsgroup benefits from having us who know the source-code participate. Ben Linder PS. It seems that most of the mail came from other database companies... Ben Linder Oracle Corp Advanced Services blinder%oracle@hplabs.hp.com ...hplabs!oracle!blinder
eric@pyramid.pyramid.com ( sybase) (12/13/88)
In article <505@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes: > >From: davek@rtech.rtech.com (Dave Kellogg) >Organization: Relational Technology New York City > >>In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes: > >>[miscellaneous self-back-patting omitted] > >>>ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising. > >>I would humbly submit that the above phrase is an oxymoron. ;-). > > > WELL, DAVE LOOK HERE - > > I have gotten mail regarding my posting on Oracle for the MAC >claiming that I was indeed advertising. That was not my intent, I was >simply offering my observation of the product to someone who asked. I stated >FACTS. If that is advertising, maybe we should ban all discussion of >pre-production software by employees of database companies. > > Somehow, I think this newsgroup benefits from having us who know >the source-code participate. From the original article: In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes: + I am currently using Oracle on the MacIntosh, draft production version. +It is a very solid beta, and the production dates are very near. +it is a GREAT and unusual product combining the strengths of the +Oracle Database Kernel,Oracle's networking capabilities, +and a hypertalk interface which brings a whole new object-oriented approach +to things.. + + At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing +databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN. Support for 3270 and LU6.2 +SQL*NET is also coming. + +ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising. +Its a great product, I love it and will never go back to my COMPAQ MSDOS +world. I think what probably raised eyebrows was the marketing description ("GREAT and unusual product"), as opposed to technical discussion of the way the product works. For instance, is hypertalk used for all facits of the frontend tools? Or is a hypertalk application able to access Oracle through some frontend glue? What communications mechanism is being supported between the MAC and the outside world? I must say, I didn't give your initial posting a second thought, it did seem like a marketing brochure, without any serious technical content, but it didn't bother my sense of what is proper to post, either. But I'm not sure you're on strong ground flaming back anyone that takes you to task over it - after all, you mentioned in the original article that it might sound too close to advertising. We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of how to interface VSAM and dBase III... eric ...!pyramid!eric
jkrueger@daitc.daitc.mil (Jonathan Krueger) (12/13/88)
In article <505@oracle.UUCP>, blinder@oracle (Ben Linder) writes: >I stated FACTS. "I am currently using Oracle on the Macintosh, draft production version." "it has a hypertalk interface" are statements of fact. Of course, you haven't specified or described the interface. It might be 680x0 assembler. You have left us in the dark as to that particular fact. "it has the strengths of the Oracle Database Kernel" "it has Oracle's networking capabilities" are clauses missing a term: what are those strengths and capabilities? You haven't specified them. You might find people don't agree on what constitutes Oracle's good points. Therefore without relevant additional information, these are null statements. "It is a very solid beta" "the production dates are very near" "it is a GREAT and unusual product" "I love it" are opinions, presumably yours. Some could be stated as facts: what are the production dates? Some are judgements at best: how solid is a very solid beta? Compared to what? In whose judgement? And some are merely opinions: if you believe a product to be great you're certainly entitled to, but statements to this effect are opinions, not facts. "[the hypertalk interface] brings a whole new object-oriented approach to things." Were "things", "approach", or "object-oriented" better defined, this might be a statement of fact, presumably false. As it is, it's untestable: who's to say what constitutes "a whole new approach"? Therefore this is also an opinion. "At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN." is a statement of fact similar to the above regarding "interface". In this statement the vague word is "accessing". Omitted were such relevant facts as: what was the access? was it concurrent? did it allow updates? One "access" that makes this statement true would be file copy and data loading. Certainly more flexible access is implied, but it is not stated. "Support for 3270 and LU6.2 SQL*NET is also coming." is an opinion. If you cared to provide a date and announce a product, it would be a statement of fact similar to the above: the vague word is "support". Totals: 3 facts, 2 nulls, 6 opinions. -- Jon --