[comp.databases] ORACLE on MAC

blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) (12/08/88)

   I am currently using Oracle on the MacIntosh, draft production version.
It is a very solid beta, and the production dates are very near.
it is a GREAT and unusual product combining the strengths of the 
Oracle Database Kernel,Oracle's networking capabilities,
and a hypertalk interface which brings a whole new object-oriented approach
to things..

   At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing
databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN. Support for 3270 and LU6.2
SQL*NET is also coming.

ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising.
Its a great product, I love it and will never go back to my COMPAQ MSDOS 
world.

					-Ben Linder
					 Oracle Advanced Services

email: blinder%oracle@hplabs.hp.com
uucp : hplabs!oracle!blinder

ded@kps.UUCP (David Edwards /DP) (12/09/88)

In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes:
>
>   I am currently using Oracle on the MacIntosh, draft production version.
>It is a very solid beta, and the production dates are very near.
>it is a GREAT and unusual product combining the strengths of the 
>Oracle Database Kernel,Oracle's networking capabilities,
>and a hypertalk interface which brings a whole new object-oriented approach
>to things..
>

Sounds interesting.  We use oracle with PRO-C interface for the batch
programs, and sqlforms for screens.  I don't know anything about
hypercard from a technical point of view.

Can you elaborate on what the object-oriented approach brings to 
oracle specifically? Can you avoid using sqlforms, for example by 
using hypercard instead? How compact is the code incomparison to C? 
Are there things that are hard to do in C that are easy in hypercard 
in connection with database applications?

>   At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing
>databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN. Support for 3270 and LU6.2
>SQL*NET is also coming.
>

I don't want you to risk blatant advertising, but, hey, am I really
missing anything?

David Edwards
Kuwait Petroleum Sweden
Stockholm Sweden

davek@rtech.rtech.com (Dave Kellogg) (12/10/88)

In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes:

[miscellaneous self-back-patting omitted]

>ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising.

I would humbly submit that the above phrase is an oxymoron.  ;-).


-----------------------------
David Kellogg
Relational Technology New York

"Surprise, surprise, surprise" -- G. Pyle, USMC

blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) (12/11/88)

From: davek@rtech.rtech.com (Dave Kellogg)
Organization: Relational Technology New York City

>In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes:

>[miscellaneous self-back-patting omitted]

>>ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising.

>I would humbly submit that the above phrase is an oxymoron.  ;-).


   WELL, DAVE LOOK HERE - 

     I have gotten mail regarding my posting on Oracle for the MAC
claiming that I was indeed advertising. That was not my intent, I was
simply offering my observation of the product to someone who asked. I stated
FACTS. If that is advertising, maybe we should ban all discussion of 
pre-production software by employees of database companies.

     Somehow, I think this newsgroup benefits from having us who know
the source-code participate.

				Ben Linder


PS. It seems that most of the mail came from other database companies...

 
Ben Linder
Oracle Corp Advanced Services
blinder%oracle@hplabs.hp.com
...hplabs!oracle!blinder

eric@pyramid.pyramid.com ( sybase) (12/13/88)

In article <505@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes:
>
>From: davek@rtech.rtech.com (Dave Kellogg)
>Organization: Relational Technology New York City
>
>>In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes:
>
>>[miscellaneous self-back-patting omitted]
>
>>>ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising.
>
>>I would humbly submit that the above phrase is an oxymoron.  ;-).
>
>
>   WELL, DAVE LOOK HERE - 
>
>     I have gotten mail regarding my posting on Oracle for the MAC
>claiming that I was indeed advertising. That was not my intent, I was
>simply offering my observation of the product to someone who asked. I stated
>FACTS. If that is advertising, maybe we should ban all discussion of 
>pre-production software by employees of database companies.
>
>     Somehow, I think this newsgroup benefits from having us who know
>the source-code participate.

	From the original article:

In article <498@oracle.UUCP> blinder@oracle.uucp (Ben Linder) writes:

+   I am currently using Oracle on the MacIntosh, draft production version.
+It is a very solid beta, and the production dates are very near.
+it is a GREAT and unusual product combining the strengths of the 
+Oracle Database Kernel,Oracle's networking capabilities,
+and a hypertalk interface which brings a whole new object-oriented approach
+to things..
+
+   At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing
+databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN. Support for 3270 and LU6.2
+SQL*NET is also coming.
+
+ENOUGH. Since I work for Oracle, I don't want to sound like I'm advertising.
+Its a great product, I love it and will never go back to my COMPAQ MSDOS 
+world.

	I think what probably raised eyebrows was the marketing description
("GREAT and unusual product"), as opposed to technical discussion of the
way the product works. For instance, is hypertalk used for all facits
of the frontend tools? Or is a hypertalk application able to access Oracle
through some frontend glue? What communications mechanism is being
supported between the MAC and the outside world?

	I must say, I didn't give your initial posting a second thought,
it did seem like a marketing brochure, without any serious technical
content, but it didn't bother my sense of what is proper to post, either.
But I'm not sure you're on strong ground flaming back anyone that takes
you to task over it - after all, you mentioned in the original article
that it might sound too close to advertising.

	We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of how
to interface VSAM and dBase III...

							eric
							...!pyramid!eric

jkrueger@daitc.daitc.mil (Jonathan Krueger) (12/13/88)

In article <505@oracle.UUCP>, blinder@oracle (Ben Linder) writes:
>I stated FACTS.

	"I am currently using Oracle on the Macintosh,
	draft production version."
	"it has a hypertalk interface"

are statements of fact.  Of course, you haven't specified or described
the interface.  It might be 680x0 assembler.  You have left us in the
dark as to that particular fact.

	"it has the strengths of the Oracle Database Kernel"
	"it has Oracle's networking capabilities"

are clauses missing a term: what are those strengths and capabilities?
You haven't specified them.  You might find people don't agree on what
constitutes Oracle's good points.  Therefore without relevant
additional information, these are null statements.

	"It is a very solid beta"
	"the production dates are very near"
	"it is a GREAT and unusual product"
	"I love it"

are opinions, presumably yours.  Some could be stated as facts: what
are the production dates?  Some are judgements at best: how solid is a
very solid beta?  Compared to what?  In whose judgement?  And some are
merely opinions: if you believe a product to be great you're certainly
entitled to, but statements to this effect are opinions, not facts.

	"[the hypertalk interface] brings a whole new object-oriented
	approach to things."

Were "things", "approach", or "object-oriented" better defined, this
might be a statement of fact, presumably false.  As it is, it's
untestable: who's to say what constitutes "a whole new approach"?
Therefore this is also an opinion.

	"At COMDEX, Oracle demo'd a MAC hypercard application accessing
	databases on the MAC, XENIX, vax VMS, and SUN."

is a statement of fact similar to the above regarding "interface".  In
this statement the vague word is "accessing".  Omitted were such
relevant facts as: what was the access? was it concurrent?  did it
allow updates?  One "access" that makes this statement true would be
file copy and data loading.  Certainly more flexible access is
implied, but it is not stated.

	"Support for 3270 and LU6.2 SQL*NET is also coming."

is an opinion.  If you cared to provide a date and announce a product,
it would be a statement of fact similar to the above: the vague word
is "support".

Totals: 3 facts, 2 nulls, 6 opinions.

-- Jon
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