evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) (07/23/89)
There's a company called the Oakland Group which has been doing a lot of advertising of a programming tool called C-Scape. It's designed to simplify the user-interface part of coding database applications in C. I have done some applications using the db_Vista library of C language functions for data file management, but it's been a long trek coding the entry screens, validations, etc. Anything that will allow me to do my coding and debugging faster, while still allowing the flexibility of C, looks to be worth the bucks. I sometimes get jealous of '4GL' programmers, who can code simple applications much faster than I, and would like to hear from anyone who knows of packages, PD, commercial, or anywhere in-between, which would allow me some of this speed without foring me to abandon C. Thanks. -- Evan Leibovitch, SA, Telly Online, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan / Director & editor, /usr/group/cdn 3 most stressful jobs in Canada: Policeman, fireman, choirboy in Newfoundland
brianc@daedalus (Brian Colfer) (07/26/89)
In article <617173680.11604@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes: >There's a company called the Oakland Group which has been doing a lot of >advertising of a programming tool called C-Scape. It's designed to >simplify the user-interface part of coding database applications in C. I don't know the product... >I sometimes get jealous of '4GL' programmers, who can code simple >applications much faster than I, and would like to hear from anyone who >knows of packages, PD, commercial, or anywhere in-between, which would >allow me some of this speed without foring me to abandon C. Informix 4GL precompiles down to C and then you can do what every you want with it... I really like this. ============================================================================= Brian | UC San Francisco | E-mail: USENET, Internet, BITNET Colfer | Dept. of Lab. Medicine |...!{ucbvax,uunet}!daedalus.ucsf.edu!brianc | S.F. CA, 94143-0134 USA | brianc@daedalus.ucsf.edu | PH. (415) 476-2325 | BRIANC@UCSFCCA.BITNET ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Leave your body and soul at the door ..." -- Oingo Boingo =============================================================================
jkrueger@daitc.daitc.mil (Jonathan Krueger) (07/26/89)
In article <2244@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>, brianc@daedalus (Brian Colfer) writes: >Informix 4GL precompiles down to C and then you can do what every you >want with it... I really like this. Many DBMS products generate C as an intermediate. I think Evan also wants to be able to build a standalone image from the C sources. -- Jon --
davef@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Fenske) (07/26/89)
In article <611@daitc.daitc.mil> jkrueger@daitc.daitc.mil (Jonathan Krueger) writes: > >Many DBMS products generate C as an intermediate. I think Evan also >wants to be able to build a standalone image from the C sources. > HAs anyone heard of, or tried, Charm from World Wide Data? It generates C code. In fact, it was designed with this end in mind, not the other way around. This feature lets you port object code to similar systems, WITHOUT having to buy someone's DBMS. DF
cam@void.UUCP (Cam Fox) (07/29/89)
In article <611@daitc.daitc.mil> jkrueger@daitc.daitc.mil (Jonathan Krueger) writes: >In article <2244@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>, brianc@daedalus (Brian Colfer) writes: >>Informix 4GL precompiles down to C and then you can do what every you >>want with it... I really like this. I found Informix 4GL interesting BUT you want C code ???? A 4 line menu compiled from Informix 4GL generated code was >400K. This was over a year ago but I have not heard that there had been any changes. Good luck Cam Fox {texbell,attctc,texsun,vector}!void!cam || cam@void
shapiro@wdl1.UUCP (David B Shapiro) (08/01/89)
>There's a company called the Oakland Group which has been doing a lot of >advertising of a programming tool called C-Scape. It's designed to >simplify the user-interface part of coding database applications in C. > Evan Leibovitch, SA, Telly Online, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario ---------- I haven't programmed in many of these C forms systems. I currently own Vermont Views - a set of C routines that allow validation and all sorts of menus. I have seen C-Scape and it seems very similar. Another popular package is by Greenleaf Software (in Texas). I'd like to use Vermont Views as an interface to Ingres/PC but I am spoiled by the ease of screen management afforded by a 4GL. The problem with the 4GL/Screen package with Ingres is that though it looks good, it doesn't look like the commercial quality interfaces we have come to expect from PC software. But creating a form and performing all the validations in VV is extreamly tedious - and I would suspect this would be the same for other packages. If there were a 4GL for VV that allowed me dip into C for low level window management - then we'd be talking. There is a company called Information Builders that offer a product called Focus - which is a front end similar to the above packages which seems to offer a 4GL language with hooks into various data base packages (Ingres, Oracle, etc.) which does allow one to work in C for the specialized tasks. On the plus side, most of these packagaes, including C-Scape and Vermont Views are portable across many hardware and OS platforms, so porting to another system should be easier. What I'd like to see now is a 4GL that allows forms which take advantage of Microsoft Windows/ Presentation Manager. Perhaps portable to Macs and finally to Suns or DEC workstations (under X windows, even !!). David Shapiro Ford Aerospace Corp. Western Development Laboratories shapiro@ford-wdl1.arpa ...{sgi,sun,ucbvax}!wdl1!shapiro All opinions stated here are my own, not my employer's.
davef@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Fenske) (08/03/89)
In article <4290@void.UUCP> cam@void.UUCP (Cam Fox) writes: >In article <611@daitc.daitc.mil> jkrueger@daitc.daitc.mil (Jonathan Krueger) writes: >>In article <2244@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>, brianc@daedalus (Brian Colfer) writes: >>>Informix 4GL precompiles down to C and then you can do what every you >>>want with it... I really like this. > >I found Informix 4GL interesting BUT you want C code ???? >A 4 line menu compiled from Informix 4GL generated code was >400K. >This was over a year ago but I have not heard that there had been >any changes. > > There are two packages that I know of. One is called CHARM from World Wide Data Corp. The other is VESTRONIX from a canadian firm. I've seen Charm. It seems to run well and the object modules aren't all that large. I have not seen Vestronix yet, but I've been told that they will be able to do X screens by sometime in September. If you need details or addresses, leave e-mail. DF
dror@infmx.UUCP (Dror Matalon) (08/04/89)
In article <919@lakesys.UUCP> davef@lakesys.UUCP (Dave Fenske) writes: >In article <4290@void.UUCP> cam@void.UUCP (Cam Fox) writes: >>I found Informix 4GL interesting BUT you want C code ???? >>A 4 line menu compiled from Informix 4GL generated code was >400K. >>This was over a year ago but I have not heard that there had been >>any changes. >> >> >I've seen Charm. It seems to run well and the object modules aren't all that ^^^^^^ >large. Big differance there. Informix 4gl doesn't generate big modules either: I just compiled a 200 lines program and got a 30K object module. The same program though when linked with the libraries, produced a 300K executable. The code that's generated is bigger than the original source because there are a lot of automatic error checking, and conversions that are done for you (after all that's what's so nice about 4gls.), but this increase is not that significant. The main reason your program grows so much is because the linker links in the display and menu libraries which includes a lot of stuff. Than again how often are you going to be using I4gl to write a 4 lines menu ? The original poster though was asking about linking C programs to 4gls. This he can do without looking at the C code by just mixing in 4gl files, C files, and object files generated by other compilers all on the command line: c4gl file1.4gl file2.c file3.o .... -o prog /* These are my opinions and mine only, the are certainly not Informix's */ Dror Matalon Informix Software Inc. {pyramid,uunet}!infmx!dror 4100 Bohannon drive Menlo Park, Ca. 94025 415-926-6426 -- Dror Matalon Informix Software Inc. {pyramid,uunet}!infmx!dror 4100 Bohannon drive Menlo Park, Ca. 94025 415-926-6426
evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) (08/07/89)
In article <2011@infmx.UUCP> dror@infmx.UUCP (Dror Matalon) writes: >In article <4290@void.UUCP> cam@void.UUCP (Cam Fox) writes: >>A 4 line menu compiled from Informix 4GL generated code was >400K. >>This was over a year ago but I have not heard that there had been >>any changes. >Informix 4gl doesn't generate big modules >either: I just compiled a 200 lines program and got a 30K object module. >The same program though when linked with the libraries, produced a 300K >executable. Well, in the two environments I worked with (tahoe and 386, both SysV), the Informix 4GL executables were never less than 800K for relatively simple applications. And I've seen the C source generated by 4GL. It's not something you'd want to mess with very much. I didn't see any documentation packed with the 4GL on how to interpret the C generated by it. >The original poster though was asking about linking C programs to 4gls. Well, I was the original poster, and I asked for nothing like that. I wanted a tool or tools that would generate C code entry screens and reports that I could use with the file-handler library of my choice (which in this case happens to be db_Vista). 4GLs like Informix and Empress (the two I've used) appear to generate humungous binaries because they seem to want to include functions which may not be needed (if there is another explanation, please tell me). If I can accomplish all the data-checking I need in code that compiles to 150K, how else can I explain that a 4GL takes 900K for the same thing? I don't need someone to re-write curses or printf for me (they may not be optimal, but they WORK). I just want something that will reduce my screen and report writing time, *given that I want the result in readable C*. 4GLs may be great in some circumstances, but try to use them for a network-model schema, or to interface to a CD-ROM, or to replace getty, and see how far you get. They're also very pricey. BTW: Thanks to all of you who replied by mail to my original request. In addition to C-scape, a couple of you mentioned Vermont's Windows for Data and a package called Pro-C. Both appear good. I had seen Charm at a Unix show and was not impressed, partially by its price and partially by its insistance on using its own file handler. -- Evan Leibovitch, SA, Telly Online, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan / Director & editor, /usr/group/cdn 3 most stressful jobs in Canada: Policeman, fireman, choirboy in Newfoundland