[comp.databases] Egg Foo-young and A-T

timk@xenitec.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) (10/30/89)

In article <289@dbase.UUCP> awd@dbase.UUCP (Alastair Dallas) writes:
>timk@xenitec.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:
>> First off I takes strong exception to relating Foxbase/+
>> to ANYTHING other than 
>> the high-quality dbaseIII+ compatable rdms it is. (And especially to viri of 
>> any sort!!)
>>
>> ...[stuff deleted]...
>> 
>> In closing, before you condem a product (particularly one that's had so
>> many glowing reports from almost unbiased sources :-) ) make SURE of your
>> claims!!  (You'll get less egg-foo-young on your face that way! :-) )
>> 
>
>I wish people would "takes strong exception" when others "condem" dBASE IV.
>After all, nothing is more "dbase" "compatable" than we are.

I wish I'd saved the article in a major PC-ish mag that said that Foxbase/+ 
was more d-base III + compatable than dbIV! On the other hand, I can speak from
personal exprience when to me the point is NOT so much compatability - but 
RELIABILITY. I don't know how many hours I've had to spend picking up pieces
from crashed indexes, trashed dbf files, figuring out work-arounds to bugs
in the dbIII+ products, etc etc ad nasea which I haven't had to worry about 
with *any* of the Foxbase products I've had to work with so far. At least
with Fox the bugs I *have* run into were (in v2.0, haven't found any in 2.1)
so obscure that they weren't nearly the concern that many, if not all the
bugs in dbIII+ have been. Why is when I talk to fellow consultants around 
here that, in the words of one person "the next project I write will be in 
Pascal!"? (he hadn't heard about f-base yet)

>The pervasiveness of the prevailing opinions about Fox and A-T have made
>me more aware of pernicious attitudes in general.  I'm re-thinking whether
>Exxon was wrong to leave Alaska, or whether Jim Bakker really deserves
>45 years.  I know "everybody knows" these things are true, but what are
>the facts?  Who cares?

The facts? Do you REALLY want me to post my personal experiences with your
company's dbase III products? Do you really want to know how I feel about 
having to go to a client's site to fix a problem caused by trashed indexes 
or databases on the weekends during my time off? Or the hours I've had to 
spend finding out that index pointers didn't get changed whenever I did
a seek (and had to put in a goto recno() after every seek) Or having to 
live without arrays, @ prompt/menu commands, dbedit(), memoedit(), 
user-defined functions, and SPEED? [note - dbedit and memoedit are clipper
functions - I've got to write in that language too.]

Where was A-T with fixes and updates when all these bugs were originally 
found out? Why did it take your company so long to come out with a
technically innovative product, and then it turns out that that one has
problems too? Why did A-T feel they had to sue Fox, instead of taking the 
safer route of developing a way to BEAT fox at the performance game? Where
were the 'small' updates to the A-T dbase product that would include these
little nice things like udfs, menu prompts, and the like? 

Alastair - this isn't personal, but there's no way I'm going to give 
ANYONE my respect, much less take any offence at criticisms leveled at
a product that I can't trust. As a free-lance consultant a good part of 
my 'service' is having a reputation for delivering a quality product that 
WORKS, and works well for my clients. I like to sleep well at night, and 
one way I get that is by using safe products that I *know* work, are reliable,
and won't play games with me about whether they want to work or not. 
If I have to worry about playing "avoid-the-bug" with ANY company's product 
then I just plain won't use it.  It's that simple. I don't care if A-T was the 
first on the market with the dbII/III+/IV products - if I can't trust it 
and there are reliable alternatives I CAN trust and use without having to 
worry where I'm going to get bitten next - then I'll go there. 

Now admittedly there has been some rather unfair criticsim leveled at 
A-T by some people looking for attention - such as the alleged problem 
of the program that skips 'elses' in an 'if-else-then' statement. I've never
had that problem, and the trashed dbf/ndx files problem are practically non-
duplicateable - except that I *know* for a fact that once f-base was installed
in dbIII+'s place the problem never showed it's face again!

However, I guarantee you this - if A-T ever *does* come out with something that 
beats Fox, and is reliable, and is 'developer friendly' as well as 'user-
friendly' then I *will* use it (and maybe even defend A-T too!). But NOT until!

>Spare me the "glowing reports from almost unbiased sources," please.  I'll
>have the young egg-foo to go.

I'd check in the mirror first, I think you've already been hit by the 
counter attendant! :-)

>
>/alastair/

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Timothy D. Kuehn	       			       timk@xenitec.on.ca     |
|TDK Consulting Services			       !watmath!xenitec!timk  |
|871 Victoria St. North, Suite 217A					      |
|Kitchener, Ontario, Canada N2B 3S4 		       (519)-741-3623 	      |
|DOS/Xenix - SW/HW. uC, uP, DBMS. 		       Satisfaction Guaranteed|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+