bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) (06/27/90)
I've only been reading this newsgroup for a few weeks, but I can't recall more than one article about Unify. Is this because I'm the only one using this product, or because it works so well noone needs to post articles about it? 8^) -- Bill Irwin - TWG The Westrheim Group - Vancouver, BC, Canada ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ uunet!van-bc!twg!bill (604) 431-9600 (voice) | UNIX Systems bill@twg.UUCP (604) 431-4629 (fax) | Integration
itkin@mrspoc.Transact.COM (Steven M. List) (06/28/90)
bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) writes: >I've only been reading this newsgroup for a few weeks, but I can't recall >more than one article about Unify. Is this because I'm the only one >using this product, or because it works so well noone needs to post >articles about it? 8^) I'm torn on how to respond! Well, not entirely. I can make one statement with great assurance... Unify is NOT perfect! Whew. I feel MUCH better. Now for a reasonable answer to Bill's question... No, Bill, you're not the only user of Unify (or ACCELL or any other Unify corporation product). Speaking for the San Francisco Bay Area, there are dozens of users (that is, customers). In the Unify Users Group of Northern California, we have several dozen members in Northern California and a couple of dozen more from around the country and around the world (yup - we have members from several continents). So it's not, as far as I can tell, a lack of users that keeps communications down. So what is it? Well, in spite of having dozens of customers in my area, I suspect that this doesn't reflect a significant market share. Unify has made some significant sales/deals, but it may be that those customers are not particularly communicative (AFCAC 251, Boeing, Triad). The smaller sites certainly communicate amongst themselves (we have a mailing list for Unify related issues - UUG-dist@mrspoc.Transact.COM - that is used by people all over the country) and through their Users Groups (there are groups all over the USA - I don't know about other countries - sorry Bill). So why isn't there more traffic about Unify on USENET? Maybe Unify's products ARE very stable. Maybe it doesn't take a lot of discussion to figure out how to deal with problems in Unify and ACCELL. Or maybe all the customers are afraid of Nico :^>~ ! Seriously, I've also been surprised at how (relatively) little traffic there is about Unify products. I have no doubt that we'll hear a bit from Unify here. I'm willing to believe that their products are more stable than the competitions. Sadly, I'm also willing to believe that they have a smaller market share, and therefore a lower volume of users AND complaints. Anyone else have any ideas? PLUG FOR UUG/NC... The Unify Users Group of Northern California was formed to promote the exchange of ideas and information between users of Unify products. We tend to focus on ACCELL (IDS and SQL), but have spent considerable time discussing their databases (Unify 5.0 and Unify 2000) as well as looking at various other products (Oracle CASE tools, Sybase from an ACCELL per- spective). The next meeting of UUG/NC will feature PERL (Practical Extraction and Report Language) and its author, Larry Wall of JPL. Meetings are open to the public. This meeting will be held on July 12, 1990 at 7PM at the Mercury Room at the Mercury Savings and Loan, San Antonio Center, San Antonio Road and El Camino Real, Mountain View, California. If you are interested in coming, drop me a note so I have an idea of how many drop-ins we're likely to have. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ : Steven List @ Transact Software, Inc. :^>~ : : Chairman, Unify User Group of Northern California : : {apple,coherent,limbo,mips,pyramid,ubvax}!itkin@guinan.Transact.COM :
dougw@fdls.odag.or.gov (Doug Walker) (06/29/90)
In <205@twg.UUCP> bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) writes: >I've only been reading this newsgroup for a few weeks, but I can't recall >more than one article about Unify. Is this because I'm the only one >using this product, or because it works so well noone needs to post >articles about it? 8^) >-- >Bill Irwin - TWG The Westrheim Group - Vancouver, BC, Canada >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >uunet!van-bc!twg!bill (604) 431-9600 (voice) | UNIX Systems >bill@twg.UUCP (604) 431-4629 (fax) | Integration We use Accell IDS which is the Unify 4.0 relational data base with Accell 4GL, and think it's a great product. Frankly, we just haven't had many problems and have been able to do everything desired without needing any C language hooks. Our major application has 150 screen forms, 58 data tables, 600,000 plus records, and the data base size is approaching 100 mb. There also is an email list in place for Unify product users that is sponsered by the Northern California Unify User's Group. This probably handles some traffic that might otherwise appear in comp.databases. But, even its traffic is not heavy. There are a bunch of Unify Accell developers. I guess we're all just busy processing transactions :-)? Or, "if it ain't broke, why try to fix it?" Okay, flame away :-)!!! -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doug Walker uunet!fdls!dougw -or- dougw@fdls.odag.or.gov Oregon Department of Agriculture, Salem, Oregon (503) 378-3790
raelun@ibmpcug.co.uk (Paul Ellis) (06/30/90)
Hi , Well I also am interested in ay feedback from unify users on the net and more importantly any net users who want to know more on our products especially UK based people. Question : How many of you know about the Full Unify product range ? Question : What do you know about the Accell Development Suite I notice alot of users querying Oracle/Informix/Sybase etc Did you know Accell sits on top of the above Databases ? and enables easy intergration of applications accross these backends . How about the use of multiple front end systems on the same application with no code changes ? inlcuding windows/Open Look/and standard ASCII text ?? Keep an eye on the industry press you will notice a great deal of news regarding our products soon. As the open systems market matures so will our market share grow !! Those people in UK may be interested in a report from Butler Bloor comparing Databases on a variety of platforms. UNIFY 2000 comes out well in this report ! Rae. aka Paul Ellis Unify Corporation UK. -- Automatic Disclaimer: The views expressed above are those of the author alone and may not represent the views of the IBM PC User Group. -- Paul Ellis ------ raelun@ibmpcug.co.uk etc etc Relax and Have Fun !!!! The rest of the world will sort itself out given half a chance !!
ron@rdk386.uucp (Ron Kuris) (06/30/90)
In article <1990Jun27.170602.8596@mrspoc.Transact.COM> itkin@guinan.Transact.COM writes: >bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) writes: > >>I've only been reading this newsgroup for a few weeks, but I can't recall >>more than one article about Unify. Is this because I'm the only one >>using this product, or because it works so well noone needs to post >>articles about it? 8^) > > [ stuff deleted ] >Now for a reasonable answer to Bill's question... > >No, Bill, you're not the only user of Unify (or ACCELL or any other Unify >corporation product). Speaking for the San Francisco Bay Area, there are >dozens of users (that is, customers). In the Unify Users Group of Northern >California, we have several dozen members in Northern California and a couple >of dozen more from around the country and around the world (yup - we have >members from several continents). So it's not, as far as I can tell, a >lack of users that keeps communications down. > >So what is it? Well, in spite of having dozens of customers in my area, >I suspect that this doesn't reflect a significant market share. Unify has >made some significant sales/deals, but it may be that those customers are >not particularly communicative (AFCAC 251, Boeing, Triad). The smaller >sites certainly communicate amongst themselves (we have a mailing list >for Unify related issues - UUG-dist@mrspoc.Transact.COM - that is used >by people all over the country) and through their Users Groups (there >are groups all over the USA - I don't know about other countries - sorry >Bill). > >So why isn't there more traffic about Unify on USENET? Maybe Unify's >products ARE very stable. Maybe it doesn't take a lot of discussion to >figure out how to deal with problems in Unify and ACCELL. Or maybe all >the customers are afraid of Nico :^>~ ! > >Seriously, I've also been surprised at how (relatively) little traffic >there is about Unify products. I have no doubt that we'll hear a bit >from Unify here. I'm willing to believe that their products are more >stable than the competitions. Sadly, I'm also willing to believe that >they have a smaller market share, and therefore a lower volume of users >AND complaints. > >Anyone else have any ideas? > [plug deleted] I think some of the contributing factors are: (1) Unify products are usually very stable when they finally make it out the door. Our test suites are very extensive and test a lot of the product ( but not all -- Right Bob B.? ). (2) Unify has their own internal newsgroups (which have TONS of traffic). Some of these newsgroups will be available to some support customers soon. (3) You already mentioned that the big customers are generally quiet. (4) Unify's Product Incident Tracking System (PITS) is a complex accell application that is ported new releases generally before it is shipped, as an actual usage test. All "bugs" are reported, tracked, and fixed through this system. We have close to 20,000 bugs (over many years) which have been tracked (yes, a lot of them are operator error, and even documentation bugs). (5) Management is very responsive to problems (no need to post to Usenet to get your problem solved!). I recently remember applying a bug fix to a customer who didn't even have support because the bug was serious. (6) Unify has the "unifybug" script which mails problems direct to Unify. (I'd like to see more traffic here, too!). -- ...!pyramid!unify!rdk386!ron -or- ...!ames!pacbell!sactoh0!siva!rdk386!ron It's not how many mistakes you make, its how quickly you recover from them.
bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) (06/30/90)
In <1990Jun29.170422.3296@ibmpcug.co.uk> raelun@ibmpcug.co.uk (Paul Ellis) writes: [..] >I notice alot of users querying Oracle/Informix/Sybase etc >Did you know Accell sits on top of the above Databases ? and enables easy >intergration of applications accross these backends . IMHO Unify's decision to unbundle their Accell 4GL frontend from their DB engine was one of the best marketing strategies I've seen in quite awhile. Unify developed an excellent development environment and user interface in the Accell product, but their market share in DB sales was a fraction of what it once was. Other DB vendors had gained market share for their engines, but were lacking the sophistication in the 4GL arena. Their decision not to reinvent the wheel was a wise one, which when coupled to Unify's decision to sell Accell without the Unify engine, is in the process of producing one of the most exciting environments since C. A developer now has the ability, once he has selected Accell, to develop applications that can run on any of the major DB platforms...without rewriting the application! From what I have gathered at user group meetings, one only has to be careful not to use structures for one DB that are not available in other DBs. Even so, porting to another DB and having to rewrite some sections of code to use the new engine's syntax is a far cry from rewriting the entire application. We have had Unify in-house for over seven years now and added Accell about two years ago. Unfortunately, other demands have precluded us from developing in Accell as much as we had planned, but I've seen enough of it to know it is the right choice for a portable 4GL application. Once I start converting some Unify applications into Accell I will probably have some questions to bounce off those of you who are using it. I'm going to take the developer's training at Unify first to get grounded in the basics. Teaser: Do you know how to get an SQL to run from cron that can make use of the system date for determining valid records for processing by RPT? -- Bill Irwin - TWG The Westrheim Group - Vancouver, BC, Canada ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ uunet!van-bc!twg!bill (604) 431-9600 (voice) | UNIX Systems bill@twg.UUCP (604) 431-4629 (fax) | Integration
hawkwind@encore.kent.edu (Len Jaffe) (06/30/90)
In article <209@twg.UUCP> bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) writes: [Big time text deletion] > >Teaser: Do you know how to get an SQL to run from cron that can make use >of the system date for determining valid records for processing by RPT? Set up the query in a shell script using there here document form and use the date command to fill in part of the here document. Then set up a cron entry to run that shell script. example script: --------------------------------------------------- : $DATE=`date| parsing command like awk, sed or perl` SQL << EOF select a_foo, a_bar from foo_table where a_foo = 8 a_bar = $DATE into 'foo.output' / EOF ------------------------------------------- >Bill Irwin - TWG The Westrheim Group - Vancouver, BC, Canada >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >uunet!van-bc!twg!bill (604) 431-9600 (voice) | UNIX Systems >bill@twg.UUCP (604) 431-4629 (fax) | Integration Len Jaffe -- Leonard A. Jaffe, Work: 216/591-0240 CS Dept. : hawkwind@math-cs.kent.edu It isn't easy being cheesey - Chester Cheatah
hawkwind@math-cs.kent.edu (Len Jaffe) (07/01/90)
In article <209@twg.UUCP> bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) writes: [Big time text deletion] > >Teaser: Do you know how to get an SQL to run from cron that can make use >of the system date for determining valid records for processing by RPT? Set up the query in a shell script using there here document form and use the date command to fill in part of the here document. Then set up a cron entry to run that shell script. example script: --------------------------------------------------- : $DATE=`date| parsing command like awk, sed or perl` SQL << EOF select a_foo, a_bar from foo_table where a_foo = 8 a_bar = $DATE into 'foo.output' / EOF ------------------------------------------- >Bill Irwin - TWG The Westrheim Group - Vancouver, BC, Canada >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >uunet!van-bc!twg!bill (604) 431-9600 (voice) | UNIX Systems >bill@twg.UUCP (604) 431-4629 (fax) | Integration Len Jaffe -- Leonard A. Jaffe, Work: 216/591-0240 CS Dept. : hawkwind@math-cs.kent.edu It isn't easy being cheesey - Chester Cheatah
campbell@Thalatta.COM (Bill Campbell) (07/02/90)
In article <279@fdls.odag.or.gov> dougw@fdls.odag.or.gov (Doug Walker) writes: >In <205@twg.UUCP> bill@twg.UUCP (Bill Irwin) writes: > >Stuff deleted... > >There also is an email list in place for Unify product users that is sponsered >by the Northern California Unify User's Group. This probably handles some >traffic that might otherwise appear in comp.databases. But, even its traffic >is not heavy. > How does one get on this mailing list? I have been developing UNIFY applications since 1984, am an organizer of the Seattle UNIFY usr's group and haven't heard of this! -- ....microsoft--\ Bill Campbell; Celestial Software ...uw-entropy----!thebes!camco!bill 6641 East Mercer Way ....fluke------/ Mercer Island, Wa 98040 ....hplsla----/ (206) 232-4164
jkrueger@dgis.dtic.dla.mil (Jon) (07/05/90)
ron@rdk386.uucp (Ron Kuris) writes: >(1) Unify products are usually very stable when they finally make it >out the door. Care to quantify "usually"? "very"? Or qualify it? Or describe, in any way you like, results achieved? -- Jon -- Jonathan Krueger jkrueger@dtic.dla.mil uunet!dgis!jkrueger Drop in next time you're in the tri-planet area!