cazier@mbunix.mitre.org (Cazier) (07/17/90)
A couple of years ago, Sybase looked like a strong contender in the RDBMS world, but I see nearly nothing about them in this newsgroup and wonder if they are losing ground rapidly, have been sold out to some other company, or just what gives. Although they have been rated recently as a company to watch (Wall Street) I see virtually no visibility in trade journals, no istalled base track record, and little advertising by them --- so what gives?
jon@motcsd.csd.mot.com (jonathan.ma) (07/18/90)
In article <113619@linus.mitre.org> cazier@mbunix.mitre.org (Cazier) writes: >A couple of years ago, Sybase looked like a strong contender in the RDBMS >world, but I see nearly nothing about them in this newsgroup and wonder >if they are losing ground rapidly, have been sold out to some other company, >or just what gives. I agree with you. Sybase doesn't seem to grow as rapidly as Oracle or Informix. However, I believe most of the Sybase customers are federal or state departments, therefore, you wouldn't hear from them in here. >Although they have been rated recently as a company to watch (Wall Street) >I see virtually no visibility in trade journals, no istalled base track >record, and little advertising by them --- so what gives? That's true. But, Sun Microsystems has Sybase on their catalog. A recent posting tells us that lots of people at Sun use Sybase RDBMS and they have built-up a support organization for Sybase RDBMS. Having worked at one of RDBMS company for 3+ years, I can say that they spend about 2% annual revenue on advertising and Marketing Communications (MARCOMM). I don't know about Sybase MARCOM, however, I believe they have so many people calling (that's a fact, I worked for a company that did) Sybase to get them interested in a business relationship (OEMs and VARs). They don't need a lot of ads :-). Anyway, don't get discouraged if you don't see a lot of Sybase ads. I'd say if you like Sybase, go work for Sybase. -- -Jon- Jonathan Ma, Motorola, Computer Group, Computer Systems Division Phone: (408) 366-4191 FAX: (408) 366-4125 UUCP: {apple,pyramid}!motcsd!jon Internet: jon@csd.mot.com Disclaimer: Those views are mine, not my employer's.
ben@shalom.sybase.com (ben ullrich) (07/24/90)
In article <1990Jul20.155344.17236@ddti.com> maples@ddti.com (Greg Maples) writes: >Well, all this self-congratulaion by sybase folks on the merits >of their product is all well and good, but a few pertinant facts >should be mentioned as well. Yes, and I would like to also add some ``facts,'' since that's what we're talking about ... ?! > [...] >really common terminals like the wyse 60 are not supported, the tech >support people tell us. Even though ``really common'' is a matter of opinion, Sybase does in fact support the wyse 50 in most front end products. I know the wyse support came in a bit later than the long standing support for vt100/220, hds, sun, etc.., so I am not completely sure which release it was introduced, but version 4 should have it. You can check by looking in your $SYBASE/termdef/w directory. Setting your TERM environment variable to the filename in this directory should yield you a working front end upon invocation of the command image for that front end. I'm also assuming that a wyse 60 can emulate a wyse 50, and thus the current support of wyse 50 will do. > [...] VT100 emulation across our ethernet from >macs requires a another vendors product, not Apple's, nor will Sybase >work with MacTCP. NCSA Telnet wont work either. The native rlogin or >telnet sessions cannot support ANY mac-native screen definition. All >this is true, even though the host machine understands termcap and >terminfo for all these connections. That's funny, all the vt100 emulations I have used to run Sybase front ends, from macs, xterms, vt100-compatible terminals, and PC's never yields a font end that doesn't work. NCSA Telnet happens to be the product about 150 users in our corporate and sales offices around the world use to run the Sybase DataWorkbench and Sybase APT-based applications every day. This is only possible because the host machine understands termcap entries. To expect the Sybase front ends to understand ``mac-native screen definition'' when the bridging utility (NCSA Telnet? which one you mean is not clear.) doesn't isn't really fair. Since the vt100 doesn't have a mouse, Sybase will not recognize one. This is true of any software that emulates a vt100, and is not a Sybase shortcoming. I admit I'm not very clear on your question, since it is not clear what is not working, and what ``mac-native screen definition'' means. >What's the problem? Sybase has invented yet another custom term >database capability. They will not 1) tell you how to make your >own 2) make one for you 3) SELL you a new termdef 4) SELL you the >termdef compiler, etc. This is patently absurd. The custom terminal definitions were created for two reasons that I recall: we needed info about terminals which is not available from termcap/terminfo, and we needed them to be consistent across platforms. If we depended on termcap, for example, what would we do on VMS? Stratus? ... the whole world does not run UNIX, (unfortunately!). Suffice it to say that I personally agree that a termdef compiler would be a very useful tool. A feature request for this item has already been logged. I don't know what its demise will be... I'm not close to product plans. I hope I have cleared the waters at least a little. ..ben ---- ben ullrich only i do the talking here -- not my employer. sybase, inc., emeryville, ca ``broccoli not bombs'' ben@sybase.com {pyramid,pacbell,sun,lll-tis}!sybase!ben
tonym@cfi.COM (tonym) (07/27/90)
This is in reference to a previous posting on the subject of Sybase
terminal support, or lack of it. We purchased close to $60,000 worth
of software from Sybase for a SUN network of workstations and TeleVideo
dumb terminals. The salespeople were informed of the fact that we have
"un-supported" Sybase terminals. The told us "that's no problem, we'll
work it out and provide support for them."
Well it took us several months of phone calls to our salesperson,
technical support rep, and the CA tech support center to get much less
than FULL support for these fairly common terminals. After 2-3 months
we did receive a termdef file which did not work properly.
One of the senior programmers here had to "emacs" the compiled
termdef file and correctly map the defined keys to the TeleVideo
escape sequence. Unfortunately, Sybase (the "database leaders") could
only provide termdef definitions for 4 of the 16 function keys and 3 out
of 4 arrow keys! What a deal!
The latest news, 8 months after we purchased the product, is that
we can get all the function keys working for the terminals as long as we:
1) Send a TeleVideo 955 terminal to the tech center
(Boston to CA)
2) Pay $1,800/day for a programmer to build a 1K termdef
file that works! (They say this should take 2 days.)
This is after 3 months of NO SUPPORT, 5 months of less than half support.
? What do other database users think of this situation ?
? What do Sybase employees think of this arrangement ?
? Why can't Sybase provide the termdef compiler/program
to build these files to the users OR just BUILD what the
users need/want. It's only a termdef mapping file!
I welcome all suggestions, help, and/or criticisms for believing
a salesperson without something in writing!
Tony Morsey, Unhappy Sybase User!