paulb@techbook.com (Paul Buder) (09/06/90)
I work for a company which is considering using the Pick Operating System
to keep track of a 500,000 item inventory. Indexing needs to be done on
several fields per item. Additionally each item has to be indexable both
globally, and within its group; there are about 100 groups, and each item
falls into one or more groups.
Does anyone have experience with PICK? Does it have any major advantages
over UNIX with some form of database management interface? If not, what
UNIX products would you suggest to build an application? (with C language??)
I am a C programmer in the DOS world. I haven't had experience with
extensive db management systems, only simple btree libraries with a dozen
functions for adding, reading and deleting keys. Nor have I worked in a
multiuser environment so am not sure how to be more specific, but any help
is appreciated.
--
paulb@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!paulb
Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257
Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbookscraig@altos86.Altos.COM (Craig Saunders) (09/10/90)
In article <1990Sep6.055815.16617@techbook.com> paulb@techbook.com (Paul Buder) writes: >I work for a company which is considering using the Pick Operating System... > You must work for a smart company. Pick is an Operating System built around an efficient database management system. It's made specifically for business type applications. >Does anyone have experience with PICK? Does it have any major advantages >over UNIX with some form of database management interface? There are many people who have experience with Pick, although I doubt many of them read the net. Since my company provides products to both the Pick and Unix markets, I have the pleasure of interacting with the professionals in both worlds. As for your question about the "database management interface", Pick has one. I don't believe Unix does. Unless you add Informix or Oracle or... (Of course, some engineers have tried to convince me that vi is a "database management interface" :-) ) >-- >paulb@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!paulb Since getting back into Unix from Pick, I've been monitoring the net for discussion of Pick. Since this is the first I've seen, (others say that it was the point of several flames in one group awhile back) I'll take this opportunity to make my first posting to the net and ask the question: Is there anyone else out there with their feet in both worlds (Pick and Unix) ? If so, I would like to hear about their experiences. Areas of immediate interest are: using both Pick and Unix in the same processing environment; communications between Pick and Unix (Is anyone doing it on a recurring basis?); conversions between them; anyone running Universe or Pick's new port on the R6000. {Craig Saunders} {crs@altos.com} {408/432-6200} <<The opinions expressed above are my own>>
mark@motown.altair.fr (Mark James) (09/12/90)
In article <1990Sep6.055815.16617@techbook.com> paulb@techbook.com (Paul Buder) writes: >I work for a company which is considering using the Pick Operating System >to keep track of a 500,000 item inventory. >[...] >Does anyone have experience with PICK? Does it have any major advantages >over UNIX with some form of database management interface? I did a magazine article a couple of years ago comparing multi-user database management systems for PCs. The bottom line, between Unix and Pick at least, was that Unix was more flexible and Pick more efficient. BTW, you don't mention your hardware constraints. Does this have to work on your company's PCs? Do they have (or intend to get) a mini or supermicro? Do they have a net? Are they happy with an ASCII interface, or do they need graphics? (If they do, Unix is likely to be better.) Is response time a major requirement? Will they be doing essentially lookup/update things, or complex queries? In article <4030@altos86.Altos.COM> crs@altos86.UUCP (Craig Saunders) writes: >There are many people who have experience with Pick, although I doubt many >of them read the net. Probably because Pick doesn't cater for TCP/IP (that I know of, anyway). >As for your question about the "database management >interface", Pick has one. I don't believe Unix does. Pick was *built* around one. In Unix you have to add a layer, unless a hierarchical directory structure of flat files suits your needs; this is why Pick wins in the efficiency contest. It's also why Unix is more flexible, since you can choose the DBMS that suits you. It also makes for a cost difference, since Unix + Oracle or whatever is likely to be more expensive than just Pick. You should also consider whether you want to run other things on the system than just your database. Unix has a much larger range of software available than does Pick. On a PC, neither system will coexist very gently with MS-DOS, no matter what the sales types say. Finally, there are other multi-user operating systems available besides Pick and Unix (such as Theos, BOS, AMPS, Dataflex, PC-MOS, Prologue). These suffer (perhaps unjustly) from a lower profile, and their database packages tend to gravitate around specific sectors like clothing manufacturers or insurance, but each has its strengths. >using both Pick and Unix in the same processing >environment; communications between Pick and Unix (Is anyone doing it on >a recurring basis?); conversions between them; anyone running Universe >or Pick's new port on the R6000. Products like UniVerse that try to combine Pick data management with Unix features tend only to marry the efficiency of Unix with the convenience of Pick -- the worst of both worlds. UniVerse would be fine for people who, probably for historical reasons, happen to need both Pick and Unix anyway, or for developers trying to port their software from one system to the other. For folks like Paul, with no massive investment to protect, it's probably more expensive (in terms of dollars and performance) than it's worth. -- === T. Mark James ==== All opinions, errors etc are my own. === mark@bdblues.altair.fr ==== "Hardware is that part of a computer === +33 (1) 39 63 53 93 ==== system that you can kick." ================================ -- Grace Hopper
stefan@wheaton.UUCP (Stefan Brandle ) (09/12/90)
In article <4030@altos86.Altos.COM> crs@altos86.UUCP (Craig Saunders) writes: >In article <1990Sep6.055815.16617@techbook.com> paulb@techbook.com (Paul Buder) writes: >Informix or Oracle or... (Of course, some engineers have tried to convince >me that vi is a "database management interface" :-) ) Well, of course it is (lots and lots of smiley faces); I suppose you could even use it as a database if set up properly (even more smileys). >Is there anyone else out there with their feet in both worlds (Pick and >Unix) ? If so, I would like to hear about their experiences. Areas of >immediate interest are: using both Pick and Unix in the same processing >environment; communications between Pick and Unix (Is anyone doing it on >a recurring basis?); conversions between them; anyone running Universe >or Pick's new port on the R6000. We're using Pick a la Universe on a DECsystem 5400 as part of our library automation system (from a company called Dynix). As far as I can tell, everything seems to be plodding along pretty well. However, I don't really get beyond the Unix-Pick border (I'm a resident on the Unix side), so I'm not really the person to ask about how well it works. The general impression I get from the whistles and wows is that Universe runs at a pretty good clip on the 5400. -stefan -- ---------------------------------------------- MA Bell: (708) 260-4110 --------- Stefan Brandle UUCP: ...!{obdient,uunet!tellab5}!wheaton!stefan Wheaton College or stefan@wheaton.UUCP Wheaton, IL 60187 "But I never claimed to be sane!"
prc@erbe.se (Robert Claeson) (09/13/90)
In a recent article mark@motown.altair.fr (Mark James) writes: >Probably because Pick doesn't cater for TCP/IP (that I know of, anyway). But Pick-alike products like UniVerse do. UniVerse even implements a client-server database with UniVerse/Net. >Products like UniVerse that try to combine Pick data management with >Unix features tend only to marry the efficiency of Unix with the >convenience of Pick -- the worst of both worlds. The last time I checked, no Pick system has won a benchmark over an Encore Multimax running UNIX System V and UniVerse. This is not to say that Oracle TPO, Informix Turbo or Ingres on the same hardware may be even more efficcient. -- Robert Claeson |Reasonable mailers: rclaeson@erbe.se ERBE DATA AB | Dumb mailers: rclaeson%erbe.se@sunet.se | Perverse mailers: rclaeson%erbe.se@encore.com These opinions reflect my personal views and not those of my employer (ask him).
nick@aimed.UUCP (Nick Pemberton) (09/14/90)
>Products like UniVerse that try to combine Pick data management with >Unix features tend only to marry the efficiency of Unix with the >convenience of Pick -- the worst of both worlds. UniVerse would be >fine for people who, probably for historical reasons, happen to need >both Pick and Unix anyway, or for developers trying to port their >software from one system to the other. For folks like Paul, with no >massive investment to protect, it's probably more expensive (in terms >of dollars and performance) than it's worth. Time for a plug. We use the ADDS MENTOR series of PICK machines, and I wanted to point out how ADDS has got PICK and UNIX working together. For those unfamiliar with the ADDS line, their version of the operating system runs on the NCR tower line of computers. They have a product out called M/ix, which is essentially NCR Unix (version 3.??.??) with their version of the Pick operating System along side. Both share a common kernal, and the unix side is responsible for device I/O. The great thing about this is that the PICK environment is identical to the Native environment (so much so that even Assembly code can be MLOADed directly). Data can be moved between PICK and UNIX, in both directions, under programmer control. I have seen figures that show a M/ix machine, with no active unix users is close to 93% as fast as the native PICK machine. On Monday last I was at a convention where there were two PCs, a M/ix machine and a native unix machine all tied together via an ethernet (WIN TCP/IP on the unix and M/ix machine). From the pc, via telnet I was able to log on to a PICK process on the M/ix machince. Really slick stuff! BTW, I am not directly associated with ADDS, I just happen to have a lot of their hardware! -- Nick Pemberton uucp: !{lsuc, uunet!mnetor}!aimed!nick AIM, Inc bus: (416) 429-1085 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Home: (416) 690-0647