Bron@cup.portal.com (George Bron Faison) (06/16/90)
Unfortunately, our experiences have been almost a mirror of yours, except that years ago we gave up on their support and now just go it alone. Yeah, that means we have to buy full licences, no upgrades, and yeah, that's a b*tch! However, the alternative was to go crazy trying to deal with them. (And then there's the Version 6 is a new product not an upgrade crap that made us look pretty wise, sigh!) I know of one site, very prominent in the Oracle world, that has had billing problems on support for 7 or more years!!! They don't ever expect them to end. We have experienced every problem your letter cites at one time or another and my conversations with others seem to indicate that it is pervasive. It is tolerated because they DO have a good product, however, I am starting to hear a lot more talk from clients similar to yours, that is, along the lines of "I've had enough of this sh*t! I'm looking around!" It's unfortunate, we've been using Oracle for over 6 years and as the fella said "Oracle has been berry, berry good to me" in terms of our revenues and successful development efforts on behalf of our clients. I've had similar experiences with other companies, but Oracle's premium prices and outlandish support fees, together with their arrogance serve only to rub salt in the wound! There are a lot of good people working at Oracle, the problem is they are usually moved to internal positions where they're hard to get at (every Oracle site I know of has their "list" of names to call when there's a real emergency) and the tech reps you usually reach seem to have somewhere between 6 days and 6 months of experience and often just give out wrong advice (as you stated). Another irritation, is that Oracle sells their "Consulting Services" to assist you in doing things because their documentation and support make it virtually impossible for a new site to get up and running without help (if they have any non-trivial applications and are new to relational systems, anyway) and some sites buy into it because it's the only way to get people who half-way know what they're doing (again at quite steep prices). I don't usually complain about this though, because it generates a great deal of business for me :-}. Maybe users should burn their support agreements at the next IOUG? Bron ( Bron@cup.portal.com ) ( Voice: 804-730-1467 ) Modern Office Systems Technology, Inc. 6006-B Mech. T'Pike, Mech. VA 23111
bossert@Thalatta.COM (John Bossert) (09/06/90)
A few days ago, our system manager posted a note complaining about some problems installing Oracle's Application Foundation product on our Sun network. Well, there was a slight communication breakdown between our DBA and system manager, in that Oracle technical support has been working with our DBA to resolve the problem. This has extended to our being given a direct line to an Oracle technical support person. This is particularly generous of Oracle in that we are using a loaner copy of their software which they provided us to help us support one of our Oracle clients. In summary, Oracle is doing a "above-board" job of supporting us, and we're very appreciative. -- In-Real-Life: John Bossert, Thalatta Corporation, (+1 206 455 9838) Domain: bossert@Thalatta.COM Path: ...!sun!sunup!thebes!bossert
carl@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Carl Pedersen) (09/16/90)
Followers of this group may recall that I started a spate of "Oracle-bashing" a while ago with some comments about how bad Oracle support was. John Bossert's remarks prompt me to say that things seem to be improving. Recently, I have noticed that many of their technical people seem to be trying harder, and seem to be able to come up with more definitive answers. They are currently in the middle of making some significant changes in how they handle support. I think it will probably take them a few months to get through this period before anyone knows whether it will really be a better system or not. My main point is that they are clearly making a serious effort to improve.
cooper@beno.CSS.GOV (Dale Cooper) (09/17/90)
In article <24267@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> carl@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Carl Pedersen) writes: >Followers of this group may recall that I started a spate of >"Oracle-bashing" a while ago with some comments about how bad >Oracle support was. John Bossert's remarks prompt me to say that >things seem to be improving. > >Recently, I have noticed that many of their technical people seem >to be trying harder, and seem to be able to come up with more >definitive answers. They are currently in the middle of making some >significant changes in how they handle support. I think it will >probably take them a few months to get through this period before >anyone knows whether it will really be a better system or not. > >My main point is that they are clearly making a serious effort to >improve. While I echo Carl's general feelings, I find still find it frustrating that it took them this long to make a sincere effort to improve their image and mode of customer relations. Maybe it was all of the customer complaints... Maybe it's a change in management in some departments... Maybe they realized that instead of telling the world how great their product is, they should spend more time and money backing up their claims... Maybe it's the fact that Oracle stock is plummeting and in order to save themselves they had better get their act together! My opinion only...see you in Anaheim. / /\_ | _//\####/ | | | | _^ _^_ |Dale Cooper |||||||||| | (o)( O) |Center for Seismic Studies --|||||||||||||||||----- _-_<>-_- -------------------|Arlington, VA |||| || | | {::(::::} |Rules of Business - BUS101 | | | \_@@\__/ ACK-PHFT!!! |Lesson 1: | @@| | The customer is @@| | ALWAYS right!