[comp.databases] Oracle SQL*FORMS 3.0 and SQL*MENU 5.0 gripe

broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) (09/17/90)

A few months ago we upgraded from FORMS 2.3 to 3.0 and MENU 4.1 to 5.0. This
was supposedly "limited production" software, since it was not yet in full 
release. I should have focused on the word "limited" rather than the word
"production" I guess. Since we installed the new versions, I have spent 
literally days trying to figure out the many quirks and bugs in the product. 
I feel as though I am doing Oracle's quality assurance testing. I would
appreciate hearing from anyone else having problems with these versions (we`re
on a VAX VMS system running Oracle 6.0.29.1) to compare notes and pitfalls. 

	Specifically, the master-detail block triggers are not created for
more than one detail block. And if you try to delete blocks and then recreate
them, you can't generate the form. When using the NO_SCREEN parameter of the 
HOST command, the function keys are mysteriously disabled. Forget about using
the LONG datatypes. It is murder trying to get data into them and once it is
in the table it causes nothing but problems. The interface between menus and
forms is a real mystery. The manuals barely address this feature and Oracle
Support is usually expert at one product or the other - not the combination.
Many of the MENU commands don't work if linked to FORMS. 

	I must agree with a previous poster that Oracle Support has improved.
They have been very helpful finding work-arounds and assigning bug numbers 
and they have been prompt in returning calls. However, the product certainly
leaves alot to be desired. I can only hope that the "full production" version
corrects the many problems I have encountered. Until then, we will be using
FORMS 3.0 as though it were still version 2.3 and ignore all those new features
that are causing us so many problems.

Barbara Roy, Weeg Computing Center, University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA. 52242
Phone: 319-335-5506  
Internet: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu     Bitnet: broyva@uiamvs
Disclaimer: My opinions are solely my own and may change daily.

drack@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Dave Rackley) (09/17/90)

We've had even less _luck_ with SQL*Forms 3.0!  We've had an evaluation copy 
for a month and can't get it running.  This certainly answers one of our 
evaluation criteria--ease of installation.

BTW Oracle support is trying to help.  They think some files were missing from 
the distribution tape.  Because our evaluation time is about up, we will 
probably choose a different forms package as the front-end for an upcoming 
project.

Sorry I can't help...I can only sympathize!  :-|

 
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| David Rackley		        |                                             |
| Applied Research Laboratories |        Remember, you can tuna fish,         |
| The University of Texas       |         But you can't tuna piano!           |
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rad@genco.uucp (Bob Daniel) (09/18/90)

The folowing comments are based on Forms 3.0.14 for UNIX.  We have been a
beta site since Jan '90 and have been using the production release version
for over a month.

In article <2357@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu writes:
>
>	Specifically, the master-detail block triggers are not created for
>more than one detail block. And if you try to delete blocks and then recreate
>them, you can't generate the form.

You can create master-detail block triggers on more than one block by first
creating the master block.  Then for each detail block, use 'default' and
tie in your master block.  This will allow more than one detail block.  AS
far as deleting a block, you must create it as a 'default' block to get
your triggers back.  I don't think it's a bug.. just the nature of Forms 3.0.

>in the table it causes nothing but problems. The interface between menus and
>forms is a real mystery. The manuals barely address this feature and Oracle
>Support is usually expert at one product or the other - not the combination.
>Many of the MENU commands don't work if linked to FORMS. 


SQL Menus apparently has problems.  They aren't even going to release for
UNIX last I heard.  We are bummin bad cause our application was going to
take major advantage of menus... At least you have it. :)

rad@genco.uucp (Bob Daniel) (09/18/90)

In article <DRACK.90Sep17103849@diablo.titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> drack@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Dave Rackley) writes:
>We've had even less _luck_ with SQL*Forms 3.0!  We've had an evaluation copy 
>for a month and can't get it running.  This certainly answers one of our 
>evaluation criteria--ease of installation.


Perhaps you can explain some of your problems.  I've noticed several problems
with the install scripts to get it going.  I've installed about 10 Oracle
systems in the last month and may have some insight.  There are some funky
problems with installation but they are minor (Oracle really need to fix
them though.)

cindy@SSD.CSD.HARRIS.COM (Cindy Walters) (09/18/90)

In article <43@genco.uucp> rad@genco. (Bob Daniel) writes:
>In article <DRACK.90Sep17103849@diablo.titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> drack@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Dave Rackley) writes:
>>We've had even less _luck_ with SQL*Forms 3.0!  We've had an evaluation copy 
>>for a month and can't get it running.  
>
>
>Perhaps you can explain some of your problems.  I've noticed several problems
>with the install scripts to get it going.  I've installed about 10 Oracle
>systems in the last month and may have some insight.  There are some funky
>problems with installation but they are minor (Oracle really need to fix
>them though.)

I, and perhaps others, would be interested in knowing what problems you
have encountered installing SQL*Forms 3.0.  Could you post a list of
those you are familiar with ?  (Inquiring minds want to know ;-)

Thanks for your help.
 
======================================================================
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Harris Computer Systems		UUCP: ...!{uunet | novavax}!hcx1!cindy
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broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) (09/18/90)

In article <42@genco.uucp>, you write...
> 
>The folowing comments are based on Forms 3.0.14 for UNIX.  We have been a
>beta site since Jan '90 and have been using the production release version
>for over a month.
>  
>You can create master-detail block triggers on more than one block by first
>creating the master block.  Then for each detail block, use 'default' and
>tie in your master block.  This will allow more than one detail block.  AS
>far as deleting a block, you must create it as a 'default' block to get
>your triggers back.  I don't think it's a bug.. just the nature of Forms 3.0.
> 

Sorry, but in the VMS version of FORMS 3.0.15.2 it does NOT work that way.
I created my master block first using default, followed by 2 detail blocks
as default. The second detail block is completely ignored. Deleting blocks
created as default also does not work. The master-detail procedures are not
deleted with the blocks and are not recreated. When I recreate the blocks and 
then generate the form, I get a 'duplicate key in index' error message when
saving the form. According to Oracle support, these are bugs.


Barbara Roy, Weeg Computing Center, University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA. 52242
Phone: 319-335-5506  
Internet: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu     Bitnet: broyva@uiamvs
Disclaimer: My opinions are solely my own and may change daily.

rad@genco.uucp (Bob Daniel) (09/19/90)

In article <DRACK.90Sep18083126@diablo.titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> drack@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Dave Rackley) writes:
>
>We installed the product (evaluation copy--supposedly production) and have 
>attempted _many_ times to get it running.  The startup window comes up as 
>expected, but upon entering a form name the application responds with illegal
>form name.  We have tried different combinations of form names--both new forms
>and demonstration form names--nothing seems to work.  We can access the help
>system, but it hasn't been much help!  The only other thing that works is the
>QUIT button.

Sounds like you need to execute the basic forms30 table building scripts
which are located in ORACLE_HOME/forms30/admin.  Enter 'sqlplus' and 
'start' the following scripts: (while sitting in the above directory)

iadtable.sql
iadviews.sql
iadindex.sql
iadgrant.sql

I'm on AT&T UNIX but imagine this would be similar on other platforms.

drack@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Dave Rackley) (09/20/90)

In article <48@genco.uucp> rad@genco.uucp (Bob Daniel) writes:

>   Sounds like you need to execute the basic forms30 table building scripts
>   which are located in ORACLE_HOME/forms30/admin.  Enter 'sqlplus' and 
>   'start' the following scripts: (while sitting in the above directory)

>   iadtable.sql
>   iadviews.sql
>   iadindex.sql
>   iadgrant.sql

>   I'm on AT&T UNIX but imagine this would be similar on other platforms.

This got us off of ground zero! 8-)   Thanks a bunch!  


****************
Wonder why ORACLE didn't think to tell us this?  

CAUTION:  This software may require some thought!  ;-) 
****************

                          
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  DISCLAIMER?  I don't know anything 'bout any ol' disclaimer!         

+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
| David Rackley		        |                                             |
| Applied Research Laboratories |        Remember, you can tuna fish,         |
| The University of Texas       |         But you can't tuna piano!           |
| Austin, TX.  78758            |                                             |
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+

randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) (09/25/90)

When I worked for Dataquest, I attempted to use SQL*Menu 5.0 with SQL*Forms 
3.0 on a VAX/VMS system with almost no success. We ended up returning 
SQL*Menu for a refund.  You're right, the interface between Forms and
this menu product was a mystery.  SQL*Menu 5.0 also had many bugs, 
including an occasional stack dump.

Although Oracle Corporation denies it, I doubt that this product could
ever be released in its current form.  I believe that there were some
fundamental design flaws.  In any case, I would strongly advise anyone
to avoid it.

You can design your own menu system with SQL*Forms 3.0 alone, using
pop-up pages, a long PL/SQL trigger, and a table.  We were quite 
successful with this method.


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Randall Rhea                                          Informix Software, Inc. 
Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS                    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
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Randall Rhea                                          Informix Software, Inc. 
Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS                    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall

randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) (09/25/90)

I would advise against using the default-Master-Detail feature in 
SQL*Forms 3.0 anyway, unless you're creating a very simple form.
All this feature does is to create a few triggers for you.  It also
sets up the "enforce key" field attribute on the column that you use
to join the blocks.

What I would suggest is that you look at the triggers that the 
default-master-detail procedure generates.  Once you understand them, 
create your own form and set them up yourself.  You will then be able
to create multi-layered master-detail blocks as you desire.

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Randall Rhea                                          Informix Software, Inc. 
Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS                    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall

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Randall Rhea                                          Informix Software, Inc. 
Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS                    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall