dbmoore@oracle.uucp (Dennis Moore) (12/08/90)
*** I work for Oracle. Informix is occasionally a competitor of ours *** In article <1990Dec7.023519.9020@informix.com> randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes: >In article <1990Dec4.215711.2508@oracle.com> kbittner@oracle.UUCP (Kurt Bittner) writes: >> >>The version is *highly* relevant, since >>SQL*Forms v3 is FAR superior to SQL*Forms v2. Enough flames on this one.... [Kurt's stuff deleted] [Randall's stuff deleted] > >>In general, the net is a great forum for sharing experiences and ideas. Many >>times however, opinions are stated as facts, without explaining how you >>reached that conclusion. > >Hopefully, I've stated how I reached my conclusions. > >-- > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Randall Rhea Informix Software, Inc. >Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall Gee, I bet Randall is very objective. I personally used Informix for two years, worked at Ingres for a year and a half, and now work at Oracle. In my NSOO [not so objective opinion ;-)], Oracle is the best of the three products. And my opinion is worth just as much as Randall's to any customer hoping to make a decision on a development strategy for the future. Zilch. I won't say that any one product is the best for all environments, organizations, or applications; that would be like saying "I have such a great hammer -- it can do anything better than any other tool in anyone's toolchest." Any customer looking to make a decision about purchasing a product must make up their own minds, hopefully by reading objective analysts, trying out the various products, determining meaningful benchmarking activities (TP1 does not represent the majority of MIS applications!), looking at all the costs involved in implementing a decision, and selecting appropriate evaluation criteria. It's a tough decision, and one in which a mistake can be very costly, but careful selection will result in a good match between the customer and the vendor, with benefits on both sides. Of course, I believe that the vast majority of people who go through such a process will choose Oracle. -- Dennis Moore, my own opinions, etcetcetc
randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) (12/12/90)
> In 1990Dec7.164302.21543@oracle.com Dennis Moore writes: >Gee, I bet Randall is very objective. I personally used Informix for two >years, worked at Ingres for a year and a half, and now work at Oracle. In my >NSOO [not so objective opinion ;-)], Oracle is the best of the three products. >And my opinion is worth just as much as Randall's to any customer hoping to >make a decision on a development strategy for the future. Zilch. How come? Why is your opinion, or my opinion, worth "zilch"? Why does working for a database company make one's posting "unscrupulous?" I would say that such opinions are "suspicious", but not "worth zilch." In fact, working for a database company is sometimes a real plus, as it allows for access to information that one would not normally have. What you are really implying is that my opinions are biased to the point of being useless. (i.e. "Gee, I bet Randall is very objective.") Once again, let me point out that I don't work in the sales department, so I receive no commissions ... if someone out on the net buys Informix, I don't receive a dime. Let me also say why I came to work for Informix: I liked the products. I thought that the company had a strong product line, and was well-poised for the future. (So far, things have turned out that way, as Informix is still making a profit, unlike our competitors.) I never thought that the products were perfect, but I was impressed with them because I had actually built successful applications with them. My opinions were arrived at long before I came to work here. So, what we have here is one guy from Informix who says Informix is good and one guy from Oracle that says Oracle is good. What should a net reader do? The option that Dennis proposes is to ignore both articles. (.... then why did Dennis bother to post his article on the net ... ?) Personally, I prefer to keep an open mind, and I read all of the articles, no matter what company the author works for. If I disagree with something, (e.g. "SQL*Forms is a 'robust' tool") then I can respond to the article point-by-point. I prefer to refute specific facts/opinions, rather than slamming the entire article for being "biased." One cannot automatically assume that a person is biased and still be fair to that person. Also, just because an article comes from a non-competitor does not mean that it is NOT biased. Look at what the article SAYS. Then make the conclusion. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Randall Rhea Informix Software, Inc. Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
ethan@thinc.UUCP (Ethan Lish of THINC) (12/12/90)
In article <1990Dec12.001604.19357@informix.com>, randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes: >> In 1990Dec7.164302.21543@oracle.com Dennis Moore writes: > >>And my opinion is worth just as much as Randall's to any customer hoping to >>make a decision on a development strategy for the future. Zilch. > >How come? Why is your opinion, or my opinion, worth "zilch"? _WE_ don't care about either of your opinions! Leave the opinions to the consumer! A RDBMS Consumer (at least in my case) looks to the RDBMS vendor for _Expert_ (sometimes inside) Product Information. This Information should address both strengths, limitations ( and especially how to overcome those limitations), and strategies. So _DONT_ take up bandwidth with senseless nonesense about my opinion is better than his opinion....tell me the facts; ======== INFORMIX ======== Strengths: Language is both Procedural and Non-Procedural 4GL and RDSQL Source Code are Portable Query by Example SQL ANSI II Product Range Debugger Turbo Engine has a "Monitor" Rapid Development System Weaknesses: No Application Generator Limited String Manipulation Limited Editor No Data Dictionary ====== ORACLE ====== Strengths: PC to Mainframe Portability Distributed Performance DB2, SQL/DS Compatablity Security OLTP Option Case Tools Weaknesses: No 4GL Poor and Lengthy Documentation Huge Memory Requirements No Run-Time Packages Referential Integrity -- "In the School of Hard Knocks, I'm the Class Clown." bY tIMBUK3 Ethan Lish __________ 1.301.652.0651 __________ {uunet,anagld}!thinc!ethan Tomorrow's Horizons, Inc. 4807 Bethesda Ave, #330, Bethesda, MD 20814-5299
wlb@progress.COM (Warren Bare) (12/13/90)
randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes: [Stuff Deleted] >So, what we have here is one guy from Informix who says Informix is good >and one guy from Oracle that says Oracle is good. What should a net >reader do? The option that Dennis proposes is to ignore both articles. >(.... then why did Dennis bother to post his article on the net ... ?) >Personally, I prefer to keep an open mind, and I read all of the articles, >no matter what company the author works for. I agree! There is nothing wrong with posting info about the companies that we work for on the net. What I am concerned about is tunning this group into a boasting forum. Lets keep it as an informational source. As Randall corectly pointed out in his posting, people working at the DB companies can be a great source of information and correct inaccuracies. Along those lines here is an example of stuff that, in my opinion, should stay off of the net (at least from DB company folks). I would also like to correct its inaccuracy. randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes: >well-poised for the future. (So far, things have turned out that way, as >Informix is still making a profit, unlike our competitors.) I never thought Progress has not only grown over 50% in sales in the past year but our profit margins have increased as well (we are alive and kicking). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Opinions are my own - not those of Progress Software. Warren L. Bare UUCP: mit-eddie!progress!wlb Progress Software Corp. Internet: wlb@progress.com 5 Oak Park Bedford, MA 01730
randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) (12/13/90)
In article <131@thinc.UUCP> ethan@thinc.UUCP (Ethan Lish of THINC) writes: > ====== > ORACLE > ====== >Strengths: > PC to Mainframe Portability > Distributed > Performance > DB2, SQL/DS Compatablity > Security > OLTP Option > Case Tools > I'm interested in what experience people have had using Oracle as a distributed database. I would also be interested in comments about Oracle's case tools and performance. I have my own opinions about these things ... but I'll leave the commentary to someone who doesn't work for a competitor! (I wouldn't want to be called "unscrupulous", you know.) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Randall Rhea Informix Software, Inc. Senior Programmer/Analyst, MIS uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
jesol@PacBell.COM (J. E. Solomon) (12/13/90)
I enjoy all opinions. The ones I don't agree with I discard. I especially appreciate those views coming from within companies whose products I use (ie INFORMIX). Everyone is biased to some extent, and most everyone has an opinion. That is why the NET is so great. . -- Pacific Bell/Systems Technology J.E. "ROCK" Solomon Jr. 2600 Camino Ramon, Room 4E800 (415) 867-6615 San Ramon, Ca. 94583 E-Mail ...!pacbell!pbhyf!jesol ========================================================================
lieuwen@mycella.cs.wisc.edu (Dan Lieuwen) (12/14/90)
I'm a Ph.D student with Dr. DeWitt of the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
I'm looking for some code of a particular style. You can modify it
so I can't tell what it does and still have it be useful to me though
not as useful. Being able to see the form of the code is useful in and
of itself. Being able to understand it helps, but isn't essential.
Do you have any embedded SQL that computes aggregates not supported
by the system? I'm especially interested in cases where the aggregate
is being computed for a join and some grouping is desired, for instance
(in pseudo-embedded-SQL)
select(*) from Department {
init variable used to compute standard deviation
select(*) from Employee where Employee.dept = Deptartment.id {
compute standard deviation;
}
use standard deviation for something;
}
Does anyone actually do this sort of thing? Dr. DeWitt wants some practical
examples of where my work might be useful. Your help would be most
appreciated.
Danclh@tfic.bc.ca (Chris Hermansen) (12/14/90)
In article <131@thinc.UUCP> ethan@thinc.UUCP (Ethan Lish of THINC) writes: >In article <1990Dec12.001604.19357@informix.com>, randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes: >>> In 1990Dec7.164302.21543@oracle.com Dennis Moore writes: >> >>>And my opinion is worth just as much as Randall's to any customer hoping to >>>make a decision on a development strategy for the future. Zilch. >> >>How come? Why is your opinion, or my opinion, worth "zilch"? > > _WE_ don't care about either of your opinions! Bug off, Mr. Lish! You don't speak for me, and I'm both a reader of this group and a consumer. Say _I_ Please! > >Leave the opinions to the consumer! > >A RDBMS Consumer (at least in my case) looks to the RDBMS vendor >for _Expert_ (sometimes inside) Product Information. > >This Information should address both strengths, limitations ( and especially >how to overcome those limitations), and strategies. > >So _DONT_ take up bandwidth with senseless nonesense about my opinion is >better than his opinion....tell me the facts; Ahem, Mr. Lish, but this stuff looks pretty much like "opinions" (I won't call it "senseless nonsense") to me: > > ======== > INFORMIX > ======== >Strengths: > Language is both Procedural and Non-Procedural > 4GL and RDSQL Source Code are Portable > Query by Example > SQL ANSI II > Product Range > Debugger > Turbo Engine has a "Monitor" > Rapid Development System > >Weaknesses: > No Application Generator > Limited String Manipulation > Limited Editor > No Data Dictionary > > ====== > ORACLE > ====== >Strengths: > PC to Mainframe Portability > Distributed > Performance > DB2, SQL/DS Compatablity > Security > OLTP Option > Case Tools > >Weaknesses: > No 4GL > Poor and Lengthy Documentation > Huge Memory Requirements > No Run-Time Packages > Referential Integrity In particular, I note a "misstatement" or two in the Informix column (no application generator? guess RDS doesn't count; not sure what a "limited editor", but I use vi with mine...). I'm sure Oracle users can comment on your characterization of their platform, as well. As Mr. Rhea said, anyone's opinions can be interesting, and you should take them all with a grain of salt. Besides, I think the original discussion was centered around whether or not the specific "opinions" of Mr. Rhea constituted ill-judged commercial promotion of his company's products, not whether Mr. Rhea was entitled to express his "opinions" on the net. See the subject line. Just an opinion from Chris Hermansen Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants Voice: 1 604 733 0731 302 - 958 West 8th Avenue FAX: 1 604 733 0634 Vancouver B.C. CANADA clh@tfic.bc.ca V5Z 1E5 C'est ma facon de parler.