tba@hbiso.ma02.bull.com (Todd Aubin ) (05/21/91)
Just spotted this group. Has their ever been activity here concerning the use of PICK (specifically PICK-on-UNIX like the Ultimate Ult/IX product, the V-Mark Universe Product, etc., etc.) thanks
ghm@ccadfa.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) (05/22/91)
tba@hbiso.ma02.bull.com (Todd Aubin ) writes: >Just spotted this group. >Has their ever been activity here concerning the use of >PICK (specifically PICK-on-UNIX like the Ultimate Ult/IX >product, the V-Mark Universe Product, etc., etc.) Not much, but there are a few of us happy Pickites (well, Prime Information-ite in my case, but that is Pick plus some extra goodies) trying to spread the word among these poor deluded people who can't see beyond the so-called RDBMS products:-) Seriously, there have been odd Pick-related queries which have come up, and with Pick variants now being available on machines which can actually talk to the rest of the world there may be more. Geoff Miller (ghm@cc.adfa.oz.au) Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
bsms@hippo.ru.ac.za (Malcolm Sainsbury) (05/24/91)
>tba@hbiso.ma02.bull.com (Todd Aubin ) writes: >Just spotted this group. >Has their ever been activity here concerning the use of >PICK (specifically PICK-on-UNIX like the Ultimate Ult/IX >product, the V-Mark Universe Product, etc., etc.) We are long-time users of various flavours of PICK and still as enchanted by the simplicity of it as we were many years ago. Our University is in a remote (rural) area of the country and we have been impressed by the success that remote organisations have had with Pick, being far away from technical and systems development support. We are predominatly orientated towards Unix here, but my department runs two ADDS Mentors alongside all the other iron and it forms a great addition to our teaching and consulting in particular. I'd love to hear from other Pick users out there. Perhaps even consider a new group at some stage if there is interest ? Regards Malcolm -- Malcolm Sainsbury - Dept of Business Information Systems - Rhodes University Internet: bsms@hippo.ru.ac.za Phone: +27 [0]461 22023 xt 244 uucp: ..!uunet!m2xenix!quagga!hippo!bsms Fax: +27 [0]461 25049
AR.HFN@forsythe.stanford.edu (Hooshyar Naraghi) (05/24/91)
In article <bsms.675021447@hippo>, bsms@hippo.ru.ac.za (Malcolm Sainsbury) writes: >>tba@hbiso.ma02.bull.com (Todd Aubin ) writes: > >>Just spotted this group. >>Has their ever been activity here concerning the use of >>PICK (specifically PICK-on-UNIX like the Ultimate Ult/IX >>product, the V-Mark Universe Product, etc., etc.) > I can't help it but answer this one. We implemented the V-mark Universe on top of a Unix box (HP9000, 835 series, risc arch.) here at the university. We then used one of the exisiting Work Order Management applications from an outlet called TSW in Atlanta, Ga for our maintenance operation. I am myself from the RDBMS world, so I had to study Pick to understand its underlaying principles. The system was commissioned over one year ago and has been stable since then. Vmark has done a good job (above average) to port Unix to Unix land. I understand they run on many Unix boxes from the SCO Unix on 386's to IBM 6000. If you run pick on top of unix, the first thing you learn is that you must master both environments. If you are a pure programmer, then you would not need to know much about unix. You would probably never see the shell prompt. But, the sys. admin. for this machine must occupy a dual position, IMHO. You upgrade chain of events goes like Unix-->Vmark-->application. It is not a straightforward episode in a typical weekend, but if you do your homework before actually starting the upgrade, you will come out of it as a hero! But, I think that is almost true in other situations. I personally do not like the BASIC language development environment, because I am a 4gl person so this is subjective. It is still a powerful language with all the system function calls and capabilities. The new version of Vmark is going to be introducing a user interface for novice users in the report writing arena, enhancing its built-in report writer called Retrieve. I guess they will also introduce the TCP/IP and SQL capabilities in the new version. Would I implement another Pick/Unix system again? It will have a lot to do with the application. If you can identify the application in the pick world, then you might save yourself many thousand hours of development. The time to port a pure pick application to Vmark pick is by far less than the time required to start from scratch. When we hooked HP to facilitate the Vmark port to their machine, we argued that many existing and reliable pick-based applications will become available in the Unix land overnight. They bought the idea. In fact, it is just happening this way these days. If you already own a Unix machine running some other application, and need to install a new application in pick, then Vmark or the like is a practical approach. In addition, you need to weigh the future and sustainability of Vmark company against those of RDBMS publishers. In the final analysis, I believe your implementation proposal ought to include Pick/Unix among other options, but the decision always boils down to the standards and strategical objectives you must have established in choosing the application environment. On another note, I too like to know if there exists a pick newsgroup somewhere. Thanks, Hooshyar F. Naraghi (415) 324-1055 AR.HFN@forsythe.stanford.edu ******************************************************************** *** I am not a Stanford employee anymore, just consulting these *** *** days. But, I will always bleed red color if I am cut. *** ********************************************************************
martin@adpplz.UUCP (Martin Golding) (05/25/91)
In <bsms.675021447@hippo> bsms@hippo.ru.ac.za (Malcolm Sainsbury) writes: >We are long-time users of various flavours of PICK and still as >enchanted by the simplicity of it as we were many years ago. ^^^^^^^^^^ (my emphasis) >I'd love to hear from other Pick users out there. Perhaps even >consider a new group at some stage if there is interest ? Pick discussion groups fail more often than restaurants, because there isn't anything to _say_. Anybody with the computer skills of a turnip can use the system to nearly its full potential. Other groups work because lots of people have lots of confusion and the experts get the pride and satisfaction of being helpful. I once had a winetasting party, and used an ADP proprietary Reality system (Micro 1000, nobody's ever heard of it) for scoring. By the middle of the party, the _non_ computer people were fully trained, and running their own queries and printing reports, the _computer_ people were whining about the lack of menus. Way too DAMNED easy. Martin Golding | sync, sync, sync, sank ... sunk: Dod #0236 | He who steals my code steals trash. A poor old decrepit Pick programmer. Sympathize at: {mcspdx,pdxgate}!adpplz!martin or martin@adpplz.uucp
todd@uvmark.uucp (Todd Cooper) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May24.032325.17880@morrow.stanford.edu> AR.HFN@forsythe.stanford.edu (Hooshyar Naraghi) writes: >In article <bsms.675021447@hippo>, >bsms@hippo.ru.ac.za (Malcolm Sainsbury) writes: >>>tba@hbiso.ma02.bull.com (Todd Aubin ) writes: >> >>>Just spotted this group. >>>Has their ever been activity here concerning the use of >>>PICK (specifically PICK-on-UNIX like the Ultimate Ult/IX >>>product, the V-Mark Universe Product, etc., etc.) >> > >I can't help it but answer this one. We implemented the V-mark >Universe on top of a Unix box (HP9000, 835 series, risc arch.) here >at the university. We then used one of the exisiting Work Order >Management applications from an outlet called TSW in Atlanta, Ga for >our maintenance operation. > >I am myself from the RDBMS world, so I had to study Pick to >understand its underlaying principles. The system was commissioned >over one year ago and has been stable since then. Vmark has done a >good job (above average) to port Unix to Unix land. I understand >they run on many Unix boxes from the SCO Unix on 386's to IBM 6000. > Thank you! Maybe if there is enough interest we could get a PICK newgroup going. I am sure we could find a moderator here at Vmark if the net were interested. (or I am sure one of our users would be interested.) -- +++++ Just leaving a boring signature. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Todd Cooper (uvmark!todd@merk.com uunet!merk.com!uvmark!todd) Snail Mail: Vmark Software, 5 Strathmore Rd, Natick, MA 01760
ghm@ccadfa.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) (05/27/91)
martin@adpplz.UUCP (Martin Golding) writes: >Pick discussion groups fail more often than restaurants, because there >isn't anything to _say_. Anybody with the computer skills of a turnip >can use the system to nearly its full potential. Other groups work >because lots of people have lots of confusion and the experts get the >pride and satisfaction of being helpful.... Perhaps you need *slightly* more skill than a turnip to use the system to its full potential, but certainly it is very easy even for inexperienced users to become productive in a Pick environment -- perhaps I should say especially easy for inexperienced users since they don't have to unlearn things. I don't see any problem with keeping Pick discussions within comp.databases, though. Certainly I have found it instructive to look at the problems posed by users of other products and -- in some cases -- see how easily they can be solved within Pick. Maybe we can convince a few of these poor deluded souls who actually _believe_ the marketing hype of the RDBMS salesmen. Geoff Miller (ghm@cc.adfa.oz.au) Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy