kkim@plains.NoDak.edu (kyongsok kim) (02/05/91)
In article <2078@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes:
:
:In the dictionaries, the character is collated as if spelled i-j ; i.e.,
:*bijl* comes between *big* and *bikken*. But in phone books it is usually
:lumped with y ; there are too many people called Meijer as well as Meyer.
I don't know Dutch and if the following question does not make a sense,
please correct me.
I guess Meijer/Meyer is a last name. Then which of the following is is
considered correctly sorted in the phone book? Or are all three
incorrect?
i) ii) iii)
last first last first last first
------ --------- ------ --------- ------ ---------
Meijer A Meyer B Meijer A
Meyer B Meyer D Meijer C
Meijer C Meijer A Meyer B
Meyer D Meijer C Meyer D
Thanks in advance.
k kimsandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) (02/05/91)
In article <7944@plains.NoDak.edu> kkim@plains.NoDak.edu (kyongsok kim) writes:
==
== I don't know Dutch and if the following question does not make a sense,
== please correct me.
== I guess Meijer/Meyer is a last name. Then which of the following is is
== considered correctly sorted in the phone book? Or are all three
== incorrect?
==
== i) ii) iii)
==
== last first last first last first
== ------ --------- ------ --------- ------ ---------
== Meijer A Meyer B Meijer A
== Meyer B Meyer D Meijer C
== Meijer C Meijer A Meyer B
== Meyer D Meijer C Meyer D
== k kim
Scholars would insist that (iii) is correct, but phone books use (i) for
practical reasons.
Daan Sandee sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045A6014LHG@HASARA11.BITNET (Leo Geesink) (02/05/91)
According to a dictionary, the third one is the right one: Meijer A Meijer C Meyer B Meyer D However, a phonebook sorts according to last name and street which means that any of the three options could be right if A-D are streetnames instead of initials. This has been changed a few years ago. Before that, it was according to option one. (Meijer A, Meyer B, Meijer C, ... ). Leo Geesink | bitnet : A6014LHG@HASARA11 University of Amsterdam | internet: GEESINK@SARA.NL Dept. of Information Systems
keie@cs.vu.nl (Keizer E G) (02/05/91)
kkim@plains.NoDak.edu (kyongsok kim) writes: >In article <2078@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: >: >:In the dictionaries, the character is collated as if spelled i-j ; i.e., >:*bijl* comes between *big* and *bikken*. But in phone books it is usually >:lumped with y ; there are too many people called Meijer as well as Meyer. >I don't know Dutch and if the following question does not make a sense, >please correct me. >I guess Meijer/Meyer is a last name. Then which of the following is is >considered correctly sorted in the phone book? Or are all three >incorrect? >i) ii) iii) >last first last first last first >------ --------- ------ --------- ------ --------- >Meijer A Meyer B Meijer A >Meyer B Meyer D Meijer C >Meijer C Meijer A Meyer B >Meyer D Meijer C Meyer D Kim does not specify in which country he wants to use that phone book. Because Dutch seems somehow relevant, I hereby present a relevant part of the method used by the PTT, the Dutch telephone company: 1) the first sort key is the last name. 2) the second sort key is the address 3) for ordering purposes "ij" is considered identical to "y". Thus both are listed under the "y". Yes indeed, the initial/first names do not count at all. Their rules go a bit far. There are a few words in Dutch where the "ij" does nor represent a single vowel. One such word is "bijoux" which is pronounced "be-shoe". Even for these words the "ij" to "y" mapping is used. The following is an extract of the current Amsterdam telephone book: bynen-bijl, a. van, kortvoort 100/k522 bijoux goudcentje, reguliersbreestraat 30 byrne, j p, plantage dokln 6/3 bijrne, m, van speykstr 2/hs byrne, a c, waalstr 145/hs Ed Keizer Vakgroep Wiskunde en Informatica Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam The Netherlands
hrs1@cbnewsi.att.com (herman.r.silbiger) (02/07/91)
In article <8954@star.cs.vu.nl>, keie@cs.vu.nl (Keizer E G) writes: > > Yes indeed, the initial/first names do not count at all. > Their rules go a bit far. There are a few words in Dutch where the "ij" > does nor represent a single vowel. One such word is "bijoux" which > is pronounced "be-shoe". Even for these words the "ij" to "y" mapping > is used. > The following is an extract of the current Amsterdam telephone book: > > bynen-bijl, a. van, kortvoort 100/k522 > bijoux goudcentje, reguliersbreestraat 30 > byrne, j p, plantage dokln 6/3 > bijrne, m, van speykstr 2/hs > byrne, a c, waalstr 145/hs > > > Ed Keizer > Vakgroep Wiskunde en Informatica > Vrije Universiteit > Amsterdam It is fortunate for Ed Keizer that the Dutch phone books, which do not distinguish between ij and y, since they sound the same, do not sort phonetically when it comes to the ei, as in Keizer. In Dutch, ei and ij are pronounced the same. Herman Silbiger > The Netherlands