page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/18/88)
I recently got some marketing poop from "Information Builders Inc" about a product called FOCUS. The cover letter, bearing the suspicious mark "(100271 UN)" in the lower right, starts: Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to demonstrate FOCUS to you at the recent USENIX Technical Conference Oh yeah? I don't remember seeing any vendors at USENIX, or talking to anybody from Information Builders Inc, or even getting a demonstration of something called FOCUS, which looks like something I would not have any interest in. Naturally, their local sales rep will call me in the next few days, just to make sure I got the info and did I have any questions? So how did they get my name? Did USENIX sell the attendee list? Am I going to be deluged with ads and phone calls, begging me to buy UNIX report writers, UNIX spreadsheets, UNIX terminals, and all kinds of other things that my UNIX system Can't Afford To Be Without? Nowhere on the conference registration was there a box that said "check here if you don't want us to sell your name to vendors." If that's what's implied by the box for attendee list, it should clearly say so. I'd like others in the UNIX community to know how to get in touch with me, but as for vendors ... Is this just me, or did others get this demonstration too? ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "Nicaragua" is Spanish for "Vietnam."
day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) (03/18/88)
In article <5536@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >Did USENIX sell the attendee list? No. But I'm glad you asked. >Nowhere on the conference registration was there a box that said >"check here if you don't want us to sell your name to vendors." If >that's what's implied by the box for attendee list, it should clearly >say so. I'd like others in the UNIX community to know how to get in >touch with me, but as for vendors ... Come to think about it, it doesn't say that, but you've just been reminded by the world that if you don't want your name to fall into the hands of sales people, you have to take every opportunity to keep your name off lists. Or maybe, like some of us, you might come to tolerate random sales literature because occasional items will be of interest to us, or we just like to keep informed on what is available out there. You can be sure that sales people use the USENIX conference attendee lists; they'd be fools not to. In the past, USENIX has not sold its membership list or given it out, but we have done mailings to the list for companies willing to pay for it. I'll check to make sure that we have a bit in each member database record that says whether you want your name used in this way. Incidentally, I am pushing for USENIX to publish its membership list annually, with portraits a la the Phoenix 1987 attendee list. We will be taking a poll at some point to see if this is desired by the membership. Of course, if we do it, members would only be listed in such a directory if they explicitly wanted to be listed. Dave Yost USENIX Board Member
peter@usenix.UUCP (Peter Salus) (03/19/88)
Despite the remarks in articles 334 and 335, USENIX does not sell either attendee list nor membership lists. There is no way, however, for the Association to prevent someone who has attended (perhaps as a representative of a company) a conference or a workshop from keying in or scanning in the information. This last, in fact, occurred after the Atlanta (summer 1986) meeting. A Canadian company took a copy of the attendee list, keyed it in, and sold the list to vendors. It was as an attempt at preventing this that the Association now mails the list to attendees subsequently, rather than leaving piles on tables on-site the last day of a conference. This aside, I think it important for the membership to know that the Association is not circulating lists, selling lists, or giving away lists. Peter H. Salus Executive Director
ed@mtxinu.UUCP (Ed Gould) (03/19/88)
>I recently got some marketing poop from "Information Builders Inc" >about a product called FOCUS. >The cover letter, bearing the suspicious mark "(100271 UN)" in the >lower right, starts: ... >Oh yeah? I don't remember seeing any vendors at USENIX, or talking to >anybody from Information Builders Inc, or even getting a demonstration >of something called FOCUS, which looks like something I would not have >any interest in. ... >So how did they get my name? Did USENIX sell the attendee list? The Usenix Association does not sell its attendee lists or membership lists. The only way in which this information is available to vendors is that Usenix will, for a price, do a mailing. They are very rarely asked to do so. On the other hand, there are at least two ways in which vendors can get access to the attendee lists from conferences. One is by registering and attending. Registrants normally receive a list of pre-registered attendees. A complete attendee list is usually available at a later time. A vendor can use this information should they so choose, although it might be too expensive to key in for an automated mailing. Usenix also procures for attendees (when their conference coincides with UniForum) a registration to the UniForum show. This involves sending the names of all the pre-registered attendees to /usr/group. /usr/group *does* make its attendee lists available for sale. I expect that this is how the vendors get their information. -- Ed Gould mt Xinu, 2560 Ninth St., Berkeley, CA 94710 USA {ucbvax,uunet}!mtxinu!ed +1 415 644 0146 "`She's smart, for a woman, wonder how she got that way'..."
chdana@polyslo.UUCP (Charles H. Dana) (03/19/88)
I got the same mailing from Focus, including the reference to the Dallas conference, but I did NOT attend at Dallas. (Nor did I attempt to register nor did I even enquire about registering for the conference.) I did attend the Phoenix confeence, though.
dave@galaxia.zone1.com (David H. Brierley) (03/19/88)
In article <5536@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >I recently got some marketing poop from "Information Builders Inc" >about a product called FOCUS. ... >So how did they get my name? Did USENIX sell the attendee list? I got a copy of this too, but I talked to so many people at UniForum, and I'm already on so many mailing lists, that I just threw it away without a second thought. The USENIX association makes no secret of the fact that they sell their mailing list so why shouldn't they sell the attendee list from the conferences. There is, however, a much simpler answer. Most marketroids know that a lot of the conferences provide all attendees with a list of the other attendees so all they do is have one of their people register for the conference so they can get the list of attendees. Quite often it's cheaper to register for the conference than it is to buy the mailing list. Since there's nothing in the list of attendess that says "you cant type a mailing list using the names on this list", legally they have done nothing wrong. Your only recourse is to specify that your name not be printed in the list of attendees. Of course, this means that someone who is looking for you at the conference has no way of knowing if you are there or not. If you are really bothered by the junk mail from a particular company, all you have to do is write to them and tell them to take you off their mailing list. They are required to honor your wishes or else you can complain to the Post Office. You know, while I'm thinking of it I think I'll write to IAPS and have them remove two of the three listings they have for my office and also remove my home address. -- David H. Brierley Home: dave@galaxia.zone1.com ...!rayssd!galaxia!dave Work: dhb@rayssd.ray.com {sun,decuac,cbosgd,gatech,necntc,ukma}!rayssd!dhb
day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) (03/20/88)
Hold on a moment. Hypothesis: Imagine some computer equipment or software that you are looking for right now or imagine a time when you were looking for something that you ended up finding and buying. Maybe a cheap, fast something-or-other. Now imagine that in today's mail you get a clever, enjoyable ad for just that thing. What would you do? Throw it angrily in the trash along with the not-so-clever, unenjoyable ads for things you don't want or hate, like compilers for dreaded, hated languages? Have you ever gotten an ad in the mail for something you don't hate, but don't want, yet the ad kept you informed about products in an area you were interested in? A company can't know which names on a list will be hot for their product. Mail advertising is a kind of broadcast. How about this: a new ethernet controller that complains all over the console when a broadcast packet comes in that it isn't interested in? I quietly and quickly reject the packets I don't want and get on with my life. If some advertising bothers you, maybe you should complain about the advertising, not where they got your name. Remember the ad you got for that thing you were looking for? I prefer openness to closedness. Dave Yost USENIX Board
ron@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (03/22/88)
Dave, Are you ever going to make the facesaver data available in machine readable form? -Ron
page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/22/88)
OK all, thanks for the info that USENIX doesn't sell attendee lists. day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) wrote: >If some advertising bothers you, maybe you should complain about the >advertising, not where they got your name. I hope this statement doesn't reflect USENIX policy. It wasn't the advertising that I asked/cared about -- I chuck lots of junk every day, and another couple of pieces are no big deal. It was the thought of USENIX selling the attendee lists that I was asking about. ..Bob -- Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@swan.ulowell.edu ulowell!page "Nicaragua" is Spanish for "Vietnam."
jeff@necntc.nec.com (Jeff Janock) (03/23/88)
In article <5599@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes: >OK all, thanks for the info that USENIX doesn't sell attendee lists. > >day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) wrote: >>If some advertising bothers you, maybe you should complain about the >>advertising, not where they got your name. > >I hope this statement doesn't reflect USENIX policy. It wasn't the >advertising that I asked/cared about -- I chuck lots of junk every >day, and another couple of pieces are no big deal. It was the thought >of USENIX selling the attendee lists that I was asking about. > I have been watching the comments on this issue. There was no problem with the fact that I received yet another large envelope; The problem I had was with the reference to the fact that I ATTENDED the recent Dallas USENIX and was INTERESTED and REQUESTED the literature that was contained therein. I did not go to Dallas this time around! This type of JUNK ended up right where it belonged... the circular file :-) -jj -- Jeff Janock - NEC Electronics +1 617 655 8833 jeff@necntc.NEC.COM {ames, decuac, harvard, linus, mit-eddie, pyramid}!necntc!jeff
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (03/24/88)
In article <Mar.21.13.16.35.1988.1947@topaz.rutgers.edu> ron@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) writes: > Dave, > Are you ever going to make the facesaver data available in > machine readable form? I seem to recall seeing something about rick posting the data on uunet when he got some additional disk storage installed... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)