[comp.org.usenix] Is USENIX selling attendee lists?

page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/18/88)

I recently got some marketing poop from "Information Builders Inc"
about a product called FOCUS.

The cover letter, bearing the suspicious mark "(100271 UN)" in the
lower right, starts:

  Thank you for allowing us the opportunity  to demonstrate FOCUS to
  you at the recent USENIX Technical Conference

Oh yeah?  I don't remember seeing any vendors at USENIX, or talking to
anybody from Information Builders Inc, or even getting a demonstration
of something called FOCUS, which looks like something I would not have
any interest in.  Naturally, their local sales rep will call me in the
next few days, just to make sure I got the info and did I have any
questions?

So how did they get my name?  Did USENIX sell the attendee list?  Am I
going to be deluged with ads and phone calls, begging me to buy UNIX
report writers, UNIX spreadsheets, UNIX terminals, and all kinds of
other things that my UNIX system Can't Afford To Be Without?

Nowhere on the conference registration was there a box that said
"check here if you don't want us to sell your name to vendors."  If
that's what's implied by the box for attendee list, it should clearly
say so.  I'd like others in the UNIX community to know how to get in
touch with me, but as for vendors ...

Is this just me, or did others get this demonstration too?

..Bob
-- 
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept.  page@swan.ulowell.edu  ulowell!page
		"Nicaragua" is Spanish for "Vietnam."

day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) (03/18/88)

In article <5536@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes:
>Did USENIX sell the attendee list?

No.  But I'm glad you asked.

>Nowhere on the conference registration was there a box that said
>"check here if you don't want us to sell your name to vendors."  If
>that's what's implied by the box for attendee list, it should clearly
>say so.  I'd like others in the UNIX community to know how to get in
>touch with me, but as for vendors ...

Come to think about it, it doesn't say that, but you've
just been reminded by the world that if you don't want
your name to fall into the hands of sales people, you
have to take every opportunity to keep your name off
lists.  Or maybe, like some of us, you might come to
tolerate random sales literature because occasional
items will be of interest to us, or we just like to
keep informed on what is available out there.

You can be sure that sales people use the USENIX
conference attendee lists; they'd be fools not to.

In the past, USENIX has not sold its membership list or
given it out, but we have done mailings to the list for
companies willing to pay for it.  I'll check to make
sure that we have a bit in each member database record
that says whether you want your name used in this way.

Incidentally, I am pushing for USENIX to publish its
membership list annually, with portraits a la the
Phoenix 1987 attendee list.  We will be taking a
poll at some point to see if this is desired by the
membership.  Of course, if we do it, members would only
be listed in such a directory if they explicitly wanted
to be listed.

Dave Yost
USENIX Board Member

peter@usenix.UUCP (Peter Salus) (03/19/88)

Despite the remarks in articles 334 and 335, USENIX does not 
sell either attendee list nor membership lists.  There is no 
way, however, for the Association to prevent someone who has 
attended (perhaps as a representative of a company) a conference 
or a workshop from keying in or scanning in the information.

This last, in fact, occurred after the Atlanta (summer 1986) 
meeting.  A Canadian company took a copy of the attendee 
list, keyed it in, and sold the list to vendors.  It was as 
an attempt at preventing this that the Association now mails 
the list to attendees subsequently, rather than leaving piles 
on tables on-site the last day of a conference.

This aside, I think it important for the membership to 
know that the Association is not circulating lists, 
selling lists, or giving away lists.

Peter H. Salus
Executive Director

ed@mtxinu.UUCP (Ed Gould) (03/19/88)

>I recently got some marketing poop from "Information Builders Inc"
>about a product called FOCUS.

>The cover letter, bearing the suspicious mark "(100271 UN)" in the
>lower right, starts: ...

>Oh yeah?  I don't remember seeing any vendors at USENIX, or talking to
>anybody from Information Builders Inc, or even getting a demonstration
>of something called FOCUS, which looks like something I would not have
>any interest in. ...

>So how did they get my name?  Did USENIX sell the attendee list?

The Usenix Association does not sell its attendee lists or membership
lists.  The only way in which this information is available to vendors
is that Usenix will, for a price, do a mailing.  They are very rarely
asked to do so.

On the other hand, there are at least two ways in which vendors can get
access to the attendee lists from conferences.  One is by registering
and attending.  Registrants normally receive a list of pre-registered
attendees.  A complete attendee list is usually available at a later
time.  A vendor can use this information should they so choose,
although it might be too expensive to key in for an automated mailing.

Usenix also procures for attendees (when their conference coincides
with UniForum) a registration to the UniForum show.  This involves
sending the names of all the pre-registered attendees to /usr/group.
/usr/group *does* make its attendee lists available for sale.  I expect
that this is how the vendors get their information.

-- 
Ed Gould                    mt Xinu, 2560 Ninth St., Berkeley, CA  94710  USA
{ucbvax,uunet}!mtxinu!ed    +1 415 644 0146

"`She's smart, for a woman, wonder how she got that way'..."

chdana@polyslo.UUCP (Charles H. Dana) (03/19/88)

I got the same mailing from Focus, including the reference to the Dallas
conference, but I did NOT attend at Dallas. (Nor did I attempt to register
nor did I even enquire about registering for the conference.)

I did attend the Phoenix confeence, though.

dave@galaxia.zone1.com (David H. Brierley) (03/19/88)

In article <5536@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes:
>I recently got some marketing poop from "Information Builders Inc"
>about a product called FOCUS.
...
>So how did they get my name?  Did USENIX sell the attendee list?

I got a copy of this too, but I talked to so many people at UniForum, and I'm
already on so many mailing lists, that I just threw it away without a second
thought.  The USENIX association makes no secret of the fact that they sell
their mailing list so why shouldn't they sell the attendee list from the
conferences.  There is, however, a much simpler answer.  Most marketroids
know that a lot of the conferences provide all attendees with a list of the
other attendees so all they do is have one of their people register for the
conference so they can get the list of attendees.  Quite often it's cheaper
to register for the conference than it is to buy the mailing list.  Since
there's nothing in the list of attendess that says "you cant type a mailing
list using the names on this list", legally they have done nothing wrong.
Your only recourse is to specify that your name not be printed in the list
of attendees.  Of course, this means that someone who is looking for you at
the conference has no way of knowing if you are there or not.

If you are really bothered by the junk mail from a particular company, all
you have to do is write to them and tell them to take you off their mailing
list.  They are required to honor your wishes or else you can complain to
the Post Office.  You know, while I'm thinking of it I think I'll write to
IAPS and have them remove two of the three listings they have for my office
and also remove my home address.
-- 
David H. Brierley
Home: dave@galaxia.zone1.com   ...!rayssd!galaxia!dave
Work: dhb@rayssd.ray.com       {sun,decuac,cbosgd,gatech,necntc,ukma}!rayssd!dhb

day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) (03/20/88)

Hold on a moment.

Hypothesis:

Imagine some computer equipment or software that you
are looking for right now or imagine a time when you
were looking for something that you ended up finding
and buying.  Maybe a cheap, fast something-or-other.
Now imagine that in today's mail you get a clever,
enjoyable ad for just that thing.

What would you do?  Throw it angrily in the trash along
with the not-so-clever, unenjoyable ads for things you
don't want or hate, like compilers for dreaded, hated
languages?

Have you ever gotten an ad in the mail for something
you don't hate, but don't want, yet the ad kept you
informed about products in an area you were interested
in?

A company can't know which names on a list will be
hot for their product.  Mail advertising is a kind
of broadcast.

How about this: a new ethernet controller that complains
all over the console when a broadcast packet comes in
that it isn't interested in?

I quietly and quickly reject the packets I don't want
and get on with my life.  If some advertising bothers
you, maybe you should complain about the advertising,
not where they got your name.  Remember the ad you got
for that thing you were looking for?

I prefer openness to closedness.

 Dave Yost
 USENIX Board

ron@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (03/22/88)

Dave,
    Are you ever going to make the facesaver data available in
machine readable form?

-Ron

page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (03/22/88)

OK all, thanks for the info that USENIX doesn't sell attendee lists.

day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) wrote:
>If some advertising bothers you, maybe you should complain about the
>advertising, not where they got your name.

I hope this statement doesn't reflect USENIX policy.  It wasn't the
advertising that I asked/cared about -- I chuck lots of junk every
day, and another couple of pieces are no big deal.  It was the thought
of USENIX selling the attendee lists that I was asking about.

..Bob
-- 
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept.  page@swan.ulowell.edu  ulowell!page
		"Nicaragua" is Spanish for "Vietnam."

jeff@necntc.nec.com (Jeff Janock) (03/23/88)

In article <5599@swan.ulowell.edu> page@swan.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) writes:
>OK all, thanks for the info that USENIX doesn't sell attendee lists.
>
>day@grand.UUCP (Dave Yost) wrote:
>>If some advertising bothers you, maybe you should complain about the
>>advertising, not where they got your name.
>
>I hope this statement doesn't reflect USENIX policy.  It wasn't the
>advertising that I asked/cared about -- I chuck lots of junk every
>day, and another couple of pieces are no big deal.  It was the thought
>of USENIX selling the attendee lists that I was asking about.
>

I have been watching the comments on this issue. 

There was no problem with the fact that I received yet another large
envelope;  The problem I had was with the reference to the fact that
I ATTENDED the recent Dallas USENIX and was INTERESTED and REQUESTED the
literature that was contained therein.  I did not go to Dallas this time around!
This type of JUNK ended up right where it belonged...  the circular file :-)

	-jj
-- 
Jeff Janock - NEC Electronics +1 617 655 8833 jeff@necntc.NEC.COM
{ames, decuac, harvard, linus, mit-eddie, pyramid}!necntc!jeff

grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (03/24/88)

In article <Mar.21.13.16.35.1988.1947@topaz.rutgers.edu> ron@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) writes:
> Dave,
>     Are you ever going to make the facesaver data available in
> machine readable form?

I seem to recall seeing something about rick posting the data on uunet
when he got some additional disk storage installed...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)