bud@sq.uucp (Bud Greasley) (06/17/88)
This will primarily interest ``foreigners'' (Canadians, Europeans, and people from all parts of the Americas other than the U.S.A) planning to attend USENIX or otherwise visit the U.S.A.: I am informed by my spies that the U.S.A., once ``the land of the free'', is now in such a state that even CAFFEINE PILLS (taken to stay awake at boring committee meetings), and CODEINE PILLS used for mild headaches, are grounds for major reprisals by the state. Now these "drugs" are freely available in Canada, over the counter without prescription or other form of permission, so people here tend not to think of them as serious business. However, Ronald Raygun's ``War on Drugs'' now includes a ``zero tolerance program'' which means that the state will seize (permanently) as much of your property as it can, for even the mildest offense. There are reports that people crossing the border have lost (permanently) their cars (a booming business; the U.S. Govt resells the cars and uses the money to finance the folks who seize cars at the border...) and other stuff, just for the crime of trying to stay awake while driving (i.e., having caffeine in the form of pills) or at boring meetings. Our Canadian government, the so-called ``true north strong and free'', is neither big enough nor courageous enough to stand up for its citizens caught by this nonsense. More importantly, they have yet to make a big enough effort to alert Canucks heading south. Last time through the Canadian side of a major international airport (in May), I saw no warnings about this lunacy. So, be warned when going to USENIX. The agents of the U.S. state are armed and dangerous, and they don't take excuses. Tell your friends. P.S. I believe it is still legal down there to buy and use caffeine in forms known on the street as `coffee', `cola' and `Jolt' (the latter no doubt a trademark of somebody, probably the manufacturer), so I don't know what the big deal is. (Flames to talk.politics, please; I don't read that group). I certainly don't intend to chance finding out. P.P.S.: If you really need caffeine pills or codeine (any migraine sufferers out there?), be SURE you have an official-looking prescription from your doctor when crossing the border. Disclaimer: I am neither a doctor, a lawyer, nor a politician. If in doubt, get the facts BEFORE you get to the border. For reference: I've been told that a recent (May or June '88?) issue of MacLean's (Canuck newsmagazine) also discusses this problem, but haven't seen the article. ----- Customs agent: Anything to declare? Oscar Wilde: Only my intelligence.
jane@tolerant.UUCP (Jane Medefesser) (06/17/88)
In article <88Jun16.184430edt.20815@sq.sq.com> bud@sq.uucp (Bud Greasley) writes: >I am informed by my spies that the U.S.A., once ``the land of the >free'', is now in such a state that even CAFFEINE PILLS >(taken to stay awake at boring committee meetings), and CODEINE >PILLS used for mild headaches, are grounds for major reprisals >by the state. Last time I checked, caffeine was not a controlled substance and was available over the counter at your favorite pharmacy and even supermarket under such trade names as "No-Doze", etc. In fact, you can even purchase them by mail-order - legally. At least ... last time I checked. OK, now it's true RayGun is cracking down on drugs but I would be VERY SUPRISED to see secret agents running around USENIX looking into people's ditty-bags for Codeine laden aspirin (as available in Canada - I have some. I am told it's legal to purchase in Canada and transport to the US ONLY if it's a small amount for personal use (like maybe one bottle of aspirin)). ((But just in case I'm wrong, I'm not telling you where I live. Nooooo sir)) However, if you smoke a joint or drop some acid and wander around the facility going "Hey wow, man - like everything's so greeeenn" you may get hassled. >However, Ronald Raygun's ``War on Drugs'' now includes >a ``zero tolerance program'' which means that the state >will seize (permanently) as much of your property as it can, >for even the mildest offense. There are reports that people >crossing the border have lost (permanently) their cars >(a booming business; the U.S. Govt resells the cars and >uses the money to finance the folks who seize cars >at the border...) and other stuff, just for the crime >of trying to stay awake while driving (i.e., having >caffeine in the form of pills) or at boring meetings. I doubt this is true of people possessing caffeine. I suspect you are confusing caffeine pills with amphetamines which look a lot like caffeine pill. Amphetamines ARE illegal. Caffeine is not. (*Honest officer - it's just a very large thermos of coffee!!!*) Possession of illegal drugs is always handel differently than mis-use of prescrition drugs. "Zero Tolerance" is a crackdown on illegal drug use. The misuse of prescription drugs is not a target in thi program to my knowllege. >So, be warned when going to USENIX. The agents of the U.S. state >are armed and dangerous, and they don't take excuses. Oh, hogwash. You've been reading too many newspapers.
soley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) (06/19/88)
In article <88Jun16.184430edt.20815@sq.sq.com>, bud@sq.uucp (Bud Greasley) writes: > This will primarily interest ``foreigners'' (Canadians, Europeans, > and people from all parts of the Americas other than the U.S.A) > planning to attend USENIX or otherwise visit the U.S.A.: > > However, Ronald Raygun's ``War on Drugs'' now includes > a ``zero tolerance program'' which means that the state > will seize (permanently) as much of your property as it can, > for even the mildest offense. There are reports that people > crossing the border have lost (permanently) their cars > (a booming business; the U.S. Govt resells the cars and > uses the money to finance the folks who seize cars > at the border...) and other stuff, just for the crime > of trying to stay awake while driving (i.e., having > caffeine in the form of pills) or at boring meetings. The original poster's comments may be a little unnecessarily political FOR THE GROUP IT'S POSTED IN non-the-less his warning is valid. The US customs service is not setting out to arrest anyone for legal, over the counter medicines but there have been 'mistakes' made. As well be warned that common items used by tobbaco smokers may be considered drug paraphenalia (sp?), if you roll your own or smoke a pipe you might be better off waiting til you're across the border to buy papers or a new pipe. If you do get wrongly arrested for legal materials be prepared to put a bond on your car to stop them from selling it before your case comes to trial. -- Norman Soley - Data Communications Analyst - Ontario Ministry of the Environment UUCP: utgpu!ontmoh!------------\ VOICE: +1 416 323 2623 {attcan,utzoo}!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!norm ENVOY: N.SOLEY "ZIK ZAK -- We make everything you need and you need everything we make"
rja@edison.GE.COM (rja) (06/19/88)
In article <88Jun16.184430edt.20815@sq.sq.com>, bud@sq.uucp (Bud Greasley) writes: > I am informed by my spies that the U.S.A., once ``the land of the > free'', is now in such a state that even CAFFEINE PILLS > (taken to stay awake at boring committee meetings), and CODEINE > PILLS used for mild headaches, are grounds for major reprisals > by the state. > > Now these "drugs" are freely available in Canada, over the counter > without prescription or other form of permission, so people here tend > not to think of them as serious business. > Actually caffeine pills are sold "over the counter" (meaning anyone can buy them without a prescription or anything) in all 50 states and are in actual fact LEGAL. Some forms of codeine are contained in "over the counter medicine" sold in the US, in particular many cough medicines sold here contain codeine. Things aren't terribly different here in the USA from Canada. Heck, I've never been hassled by US/Canadian Customs going either way on foot or by car; so I doubt that normal folks have much to worry about. On the other hand real drug users/smugglers hopefully do have something to worry about.
simmons@applga.uucp (Steve Simmons) (06/20/88)
In article <88Jun16.184430edt.20815@sq.sq.com> bud@sq.uucp (Bud Greasley) writes: >This will primarily interest ``foreigners'' (Canadians, Europeans, >and people from all parts of the Americas other than the U.S.A) >planning to attend USENIX or otherwise visit the U.S.A.: > >I am informed by my spies that the U.S.A., once ``the land of the >free'', is now in such a state that even CAFFEINE PILLS >(taken to stay awake at boring committee meetings), and CODEINE >PILLS used for mild headaches, are grounds for major reprisals >by the state. > >Now these "drugs" are freely available in Canada, over the counter >without prescription or other form of permission, so people here tend >not to think of them as serious business. > >[[ and continues on with other flames ]] Golly gee, I didn't know we were so awful. Apparently you haven't crossed into Canada lately. Last weekend I got told I couldn't bring my guitar in by a Canadian customs agent. Seems I couldn't prove it wasn't a gift for someone. After some discussion, proof that I could play it, and clear display that the guitar was old and beat up they let me thru. This is reasonable? Lighten up. Every country has idiotic laws, and flaming them will never make the situation better. A simple posting saying "dos and don'ts" would be much more reasonable. Therefore I've compiled a few notes below. I'm not a customs agent, just a traveller, so these are not complete by any means. Note that they apply to returning to your home country as well! Drugs: Careful. Don't even think about it if they're recreational. If medical, you will need a signed note from your physician stating what the drug is and why you need it. *Declare it* at the border, and don't argue if they take it away -- you'll just get in grouble for hassling them. If you *don't* declare it and they find it, expect the worst. Food: Risky. Many foods are restricted by tarriff, many more for reducing spread of crop diseases. Fresh fruit are welcomed by some, burned by others (Arizona is notorious). Better to hit a local grocery store after your arrival. Liquor: Call your local agent. Often you can do the best by buying in your duty-free shop leaving home. But don't try to bring it back with you. If you're taking liquor back home, buy it duty-free as you leave. Personal Possessions: Astonishing what some agents will object to. The best bet is to make sure you have all clothes which are clearly not brand new. Three pair of perfectly new shoes is not a good idea. You Canadians especially should be careful bringing in leather goods. Pick things you have worn enough that one can tell. Don't try to bring computers and tapes and floppies either direction. Ditto other electronic componenets. In general customs agents *are* reasonable. But hassle them and they'll hassle right back -- and they can hassle lots harder than you can. -- +- Steve Simmons UNIX Systems Mgr. Schlumberger CAD/CAM -+ + simmons@applga.uucp ...umix!applga!simmons + +- "Opinions expressed are all my own, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc." -+
doug@edson.UUCP (Doug Konrad) (06/21/88)
on the subject of zero tolerance... I read an article in the local paper last week about a BC couple who spent $2500 on legal fees to reclaim their car. Their offence? One package of cigarette papers in the woman's purse...
ian@hoptoad.uucp (Ian Darwin) (06/23/88)
As the original poster of the article on this topic: First, let me apologize for including caffeine in the list of things to be warned about. I was misinformed. I wanted to get the warning out in time for those travelling to Usenix, so was less careful than I might have been. Sorry!! In response to the person who said I shouldn't expect to see undercover drug enforcement agents snooping around USENIX, of course. The context of the posting was, or so I tried to make it, that of crossing the border INTO the U.S.A. When you cross international borders in "modern times" you become subject to the possibility of active snooping by agents of the state. To the people who said I was overreacting, I have a seconder: >I read an article in the local paper last week about a BC couple who spent >$2500 on legal fees to reclaim their car. Their offence? One package of >cigarette papers in the woman's purse... I didn't see that article, nor do we get to check it out since we don't have a reference. However I have been hearing these stories a lot lately. When I get back from USENIX I will try to track down at least the MacLean's article I originally referred to. Thanks everybody. Ian Darwin ian@sq.com (please ignore the return path of this article and of the original posting - the former because I am posting from a guest account on hoptoad during USENIX, and the latter because of a bug in sq's mail/news software).
rs2@houxv.UUCP (R.SWITZER) (06/27/88)
In article <747@applga.UUCP>, simmons@applga.uucp (Steve Simmons) writes: [stuff deleted] > > Golly gee, I didn't know we were so awful. Apparently you haven't > crossed into Canada lately. Last weekend I got told I couldn't bring > my guitar in by a Canadian customs agent. Seems I couldn't prove it > wasn't a gift for someone. After some discussion, proof that I could > play it, and clear display that the guitar was old and beat up they > let me thru. This is reasonable? > [stuff deleted] > -- > +- Steve Simmons UNIX Systems Mgr. Schlumberger CAD/CAM -+ > + simmons@applga.uucp ...umix!applga!simmons + > +- "Opinions expressed are all my own, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc." -+ A few years back, I had an acquaintance who routinely used to drop by HIS friends' music shop with orders for equipment and went and visited Canadien relatives and friends with "gifts". An example of why is that a stratocaster (yeah, I know, who wants them anyway:-) which cost around $US600 here, cost about $US1200 there! My acquaintance did not charge his friends and relatives the $US1200. He used to go North through one border entrance and come home a different way. To my knowledge he never got caught (although I personally believe he deserved to get caught). People like that cause border personel to be unreasonable. Regards, Robert S.
akkana@brain.ucsd.edu (Akkana) (06/29/88)
In article <781@houxv.UUCP> rs2@houxv.UUCP (R.SWITZER) writes: >A few years back, I had an acquaintance who routinely used to drop by >HIS friends' music shop with orders for equipment and went and visited >Canadien relatives and friends with "gifts". An example of why is that >a stratocaster (yeah, I know, who wants them anyway:-) which cost around >$US600 here, cost about $US1200 there! My acquaintance did not charge >his friends and relatives the $US1200. He used to go North through one >border entrance and come home a different way. To my knowledge he never >got caught (although I personally believe he deserved to get caught). [ I know this isn't the right group for this, but hey, there probably won't be much traffic on this group for the next few months ...] What's so bad about this? Why did he "deserve to get caught"? Where would the extra $600 be going had they bought the guitar in Canada? It sounds like you wouldn't be as bothered by this if your acquaintance *had* charged the Canadians the extra $600 -- why? Puzzled, ...Akkana
rs2@houxv.UUCP (R.SWITZER) (06/29/88)
In article <1009@ucsd.EDU>, akkana@brain.ucsd.edu (Akkana) writes: [stuff deleted] > > What's so bad about this? Why did he "deserve to get caught"? Where > would the extra $600 be going had they bought the guitar in Canada? > It sounds like you wouldn't be as bothered by this if your acquaintance > *had* charged the Canadians the extra $600 -- why? > > Puzzled, > ...Akkana Sorry for the pompous value judgement, but yes, I would have been bothered if he *had* charged the Canadians the extra $600. The reason why I was bothered really goes beyond the information I gave you in the story (and is not appropriate for this group). I will retract my "deserve" and just say that this person was one who lived on the edge of (should I even say this? :-) the law every day and he didn't need to. I was intending to point out some economic reasons why border officials are strict. Regards, Robert S.
simmons@applga.uucp (Steve Simmons) (06/29/88)
In article <1009@ucsd.EDU> akkana@brain.UCSD.EDU (Akkana) writes: >In article <781@houxv.UUCP> rs2@houxv.UUCP (R.SWITZER) writes: >>A few years back, I had an acquaintance who routinely used to drop by >>HIS friends' music shop with orders for equipment and went and visited >>Canadien relatives and friends with "gifts". > >What's so bad about this? Why did he "deserve to get caught"? Where >would the extra $600 be going had they bought the guitar in Canada? Not to debate the reasonableness of tarrifs and duties (they s*ck), but when folks break the law that way it makes it hard on us who are just carrying personal possesions back and forth. The $600.00 would go to the Canadian gov. Think about what the USA IRS would do to you for $600 you criminally avoided paying. -- +- Steve Simmons UNIX Systems Mgr. Schlumberger CAD/CAM -+ + simmons@applga.uucp ...umix!applga!simmons + +- "Opinions expressed are all my own, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc." -+
bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (06/30/88)
I was sort of hassled by Canadian customs going into Canada last year. The guy asked me what was in my bags (a garment bag and a leather shoulder bag), I said clothing, toiletries, some books... (I flew in.) He took me into a private side room and proceeded to search my bags. Me: Everything ok? What's the problem? Him: Where are the *BOOKS*? Me: Right there, the two science fiction paperbacks in the shoulder bag... Him: oh, ok, you can go, enjoy your stay. (who the hell knows, I've heard all the theories about porno etc, seems silly to me, "where are the *BOOKS*"...) -Barry Shein, Boston University
avolio@decuac.dec.com (Frederick M. Avolio) (06/30/88)
In article <23547@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: > >I was sort of hassled by Canadian customs going into Canada last >year. ... Barry.... If only you didn't look so much like a *radical* :-) -Fred-
bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) (06/30/88)
>In article <23547@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes: >> >>I was sort of hassled by Canadian customs going into Canada last >>year. ... > > >Barry.... If only you didn't look so much like a *radical* :-) > >-Fred- Oh, I see, that was the Canadian govt's friendly way of saying I needed a haircut. Actually, I think my hair was pretty short that week, I do remember sharing the podium with IBM at UNB and they made no shrieks of protest. -B
peter@ficc.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (07/01/88)
In article <781@houxv.UUCP>, rs2@houxv.UUCP writes: > got caught (although I personally believe he deserved to get caught). > People like that cause border personel to be unreasonable. The unreasonable thing, to me, is the guitar costing $1200 in Canada. Australia's like that, too. I remember seeing a C=64 in a store for $600, at a time they were seling for $200 in the states. Yes, there are transport costs, but the 35% duty and the 17% luxury tax (and probably other taxes I never knew of) had something to do with it, too. -- -- `-_-' Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva. -- U Ferranti International Controls Corporation. -- Phone: 713-274-5180. CI$: 70216,1076. ICBM: 29 37 N / 95 36 W. -- UUCP: {uunet,academ!uhnix1,bellcore!tness1}!sugar!ficc!peter.
soley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) (07/04/88)
I'm moving this to misc.legal as it really doesn't belong here (in comp.org.usenix) anymore. In article <747@applga.UUCP>, simmons@applga.uucp (Steve Simmons) writes: > In article <88Jun16.184430edt.20815@sq.sq.com> bud@sq.uucp (Bud Greasley) writes: > >[A warning to those travelling to USENIX about the zero tolerance > > program, with a fair amount of flaming thrown in] > > Golly gee, I didn't know we were so awful. Apparently you haven't > crossed into Canada lately. Last weekend I got told I couldn't bring > my guitar in by a Canadian customs agent. Seems I couldn't prove it > wasn't a gift for someone. After some discussion, proof that I could > play it, and clear display that the guitar was old and beat up they > let me thru. This is reasonable? Your problem is that you did not follow the proper procedure! anyone who crosses the border (in either direction) frequently with expensive items (guitars, cameras, walkmans etc.) should know that they should take out an export permit on these items or carry the bill of sale. Canada customs issues unlimited use permits (they're little green cards) and you can get them at crossing time. The U.S. customs service on the other hand requires that you get a permit each time you plan to cross the border and it must be done in advance at your local customs service office. > Lighten up. Every country has idiotic laws, and flaming them will never > make the situation better. A simple posting saying "dos and don'ts" would > be much more reasonable. Therefore I've compiled a few notes below. I'm > not a customs agent, just a traveller, so these are not complete by any > means. Note that they apply to returning to your home country as > well! > > Drugs: Careful. Don't even think about it if they're recreational. If > medical, you will need a signed note from your physician stating what > the drug is and why you need it. *Declare it* at the border, and don't > argue if they take it away -- you'll just get in grouble for hassling > them. If you *don't* declare it and they find it, expect the worst. Suprisingly it seems that most of the arrests and seizures in the zero tolerance program have been people trying to take drugs out of the US into Canada (outnumbering the other direction 2-1). And do remember that cigarette papers and anything else which could be considered "drug paraphenailia" can get you arrested too! > Food: Risky. Many foods are restricted by tarriff, many more for reducing > spread of crop diseases. Fresh fruit are welcomed by some, burned by > others (Arizona is notorious). Better to hit a local grocery store after > your arrival. Pork products as well are a common problem. The US will only allow in citrus if it bears a stamp proving American origin (e.g. Sunkist) > Liquor: Call your local agent. Often you can do the best by buying in > your duty-free shop leaving home. But don't try to bring it back with > you. If you're taking liquor back home, buy it duty-free as you leave. At the duty free or not does not matter! Both countries have maximum amounts of liquor and cigarettes that you are allowed to carry across with you. It is possible to buy tobacco products in Canada which cannot be taken legally into the states (i.e. Cuban in origin) > Personal Possessions: Astonishing what some agents will object to. The > best bet is to make sure you have all clothes which are clearly not > brand new. Three pair of perfectly new shoes is not a good idea. You > Canadians especially should be careful bringing in leather goods. Pick > things you have worn enough that one can tell. Don't try to bring > computers and tapes and floppies either direction. Ditto other electronic > componenets. As I said before get export permits for any expensive items! I've crossed the border 100's of times, been inspected a few and never had clothing or other such items questioned (unless it still had the tags on or in a new shopping bag) > In general customs agents *are* reasonable. But hassle them and they'll > hassle right back -- and they can hassle lots harder than you can. In addition: Firearms: Don't even think of handguns! and make sure you have the necessary permits and licences etc. for hunting weapons. If you fail to declare firearms when you cross the border from the US into Candada and get caught you can kiss your guns goodbye, they will be shredded or melted and you will be turned away. In another related issue: It seems that American Customs agents are seizing large quantities of circuit boards and computer software at the border for suspicion of copyright violation. By way of example ATI Technologies, the maker of the ATI Wondercard and Graphics solution cards has had thousands of units siezed at the border for often months at a time. The boards have been examined in both a customs service laboratory and a IBM laboratory and no evidence of copyright infringement has been found. No charge has ever been laid and yet the seizures continue. The president of ATI alledges that this is a deliberate attempt on the part of US computer companies to force foriegn competition out of business by pressuring the US Customs Service to use unfair or dare I say it, illegal tactics, to restrict the ability of foreign companies to get their products to the American Market. -- Norman Soley - Data Communications Analyst - Ontario Ministry of the Environment UUCP: utgpu!ontmoh!------------\ VOICE: +1 416 323 2623 {attcan,utzoo}!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!norm ENVOY: N.SOLEY "ZIK ZAK -- We make everything you need and you need everything we make"