siegel@stsci.EDU (Howard Siegel) (07/11/90)
Thanks to all who responded to my posting requesting information about Jim Joyce's Unix Bookstore. I got 10 responses with information, 1 request for their address, and 1 response that my posting did not belong in that particular newsgroup. (Maybe I had too high hopes, but I expected a bigger response.) The results tended to lean toward the negative. Some folks had very good service while others had extremely bad service, both in terms of Jim and others who work there and in terms of prices, availability, promptness of delivery, etc. Some thought Jim was very knowledgeable and helpful while some had much harsher words. In general, the good service was just what one would typically expect while the bad service seemed extremely bad. My horror story is... On March 15 '90 based on a review by Jim, and the 10% discount he offered to first time customers, I called his bookstore to order a book. I was told that the book was not in stock but the shipment was due real soon and I could probably expect to have the book in my hands in about 3 weeks. On April 17 I called back to find out the status of my order, expecting that the delay was caused by a late shipment from the publisher. Instead I was told that there was no record of my order nor was there any record of a shipment to me or the city where I live. Given that they said the book was now definitely in stock, they would ship one out that day. On May 22 I called again and got the same story about not finding an order and that a copy would be shipped that day. I also called the credit card company to confirm that there had not been any charges posted. On June 11 I called back and for the first time I talked to Jim Joyce himself, and guess what, no record of any order or shipment. Well, there still was the 10% discount and after a fair amount of flaming, Jim reduced the shipping charges, so I gave him one more chance. The book finally showed up late the following week. I wasn't in any rush to get the book, but I wasn't prepared to wait for 4 months. I can understand if the publisher is having problems getting books out or if the distributer can't keep them in stock, but I want to be told about it. What I can not understand is how an order can be lost 3 times. Jim's story was that he was in the process of reorganizing the book store because problems like mine were beginning to happen too often and he was loosing mail order business. Of course I started asking about this place only after I ordered something and began having problems. Given the information I received, I would not have started with Jim Joyce's in the first place. Now that I have had some experience with the place, I'll have to think long and hard about giving them any more business. For the brave, here is the address and phone number: Jim Joyce's UNIX Bookstore 139 Noe Street San Francisco, CA 94114 415-626-7581 Alternate sources recommended in some of the responses are: Stanford University. Special Order desk: 1-800-533-2670 Large selection (not just UNIX). Good return policy. Will ship same day via Federal Express overnight delivery. Computer Literacy Sunnyvale CA: 408-730-9555 San Jose CA: 408-435-1118 Better prices, better selection (not just UNIX). No catalog. Cucumber Bookshop 5611 Kraft Drive Rockville MD 20852 301-881-2722 (voice) 301-468-2920 (fax) Small store front. Primarily UNIX and C. No shipping charges for prepaid orders. 24 hour ordering via fax. Orders shipped within 24 hours. Seems to have a pretty liberal return policy. Catalog available. O'Reilly & Associates 632 Petaluma Avenue Sebastopol CA 95472 1-800-338-6887 (1-800-533-6887 in CA) Publisher. Primarily UNIX and X windows. Catalog available.
lauther@janus.Berkeley.EDU (Ulrich Lauther) (07/11/90)
In article <1581@stsci.edu> siegel@stsci.EDU (Howard Siegel) writes: > >My horror story is... On March 15 '90 based on a review by Jim, and the >10% discount he offered to first time customers, I called his bookstore to >order a book. I was told that the book was not in stock but the shipment [long horror story deleted] This lets my ask a question that has been nagging me for a long time: Why is it that in civilized countries a bookstore gets you a book that is not in stock typically within 24 hours, but not so in the US? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ulrich Lauther Internet: lauther@janus.berkeley.edu Siemens / UCB ph: +1 415 642 3338 fax: 642 2739 +1 415 658 8529 home
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (07/11/90)
In article <1581@stsci.edu> siegel@stsci.EDU (Howard Siegel) writes: >The results tended to lean toward the negative. Some folks had very good >service while others had extremely bad service... In fairness, my understanding is that Jim has had both personal and (non-bookstore) financial problems in the recent past, and a fair fraction of this is "factors beyond our control" rather than incompetence or malice. Of course, if your book is late, your book is late, and you may not be too interested in all the horrible reasons... -- NFS is a wonderful advance: a Unix | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology filesystem with MSDOS semantics. :-( | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
jaap@mtxinu.COM (Jaap Akkerhuis) (07/12/90)
Please note that to my knowledge usenix doesn't endorse any bookshop, so comp.org.usenix (or many of the other cross posted groups) is not really the place to discuss the merits of bookshops etc. I would suggest followups to comp.consumers, jaap
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (07/12/90)
In article <37505@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> lauther@janus.berkeley.edu (Ulrich Lauther) writes: >Why is it that in civilized countries a bookstore gets you a book that is >not in stock typically within 24 hours, but not so in the US? Because marketing in the U.S. is primarily geared toward the lowest common denominator. It is very easy to find popular books and records, far too easy in fact, since every store will stock those. For anything out of the ordinary the "chain" (mass market) stores are not set up to help you; their economics depend on volume sales, not special service, and their main goal is to make money, not to be of service. There are specialty stores, for example Computer Literacy Bookstores in the San Jose area, Ray Avery's Rare Records in Glendale, and others scattered around, mostly near population centers (because when a retail company specializes, it takes a large population base to result in enough specialty customers). Special orders at chain stores that accept them are merely routed to the distributor, who of course doesn't stock anything execpt best sellers. The distributor in turn has to add the special order to his next batch order from the publisher, which may not occur for weeks depending on what is in stock and on turnover at the stores. On the other hand, I've ordered many books directly from the publisher. They tend to have their own books in stock more often than distributors.
lauther@janus.Berkeley.EDU (Ulrich Lauther) (07/12/90)
In article <CBL4P_G@xds8.ferranti.com> jeffd@ficc.ferranti.com (jeff daiell) writes: [original quote deleted] > >Many of those countries are small enough that books can get from >publisher to bookstore pretty quickly. Here, however, the publisher >may be in New York, and the bookstore in Hilo, Hawaii, so a quick >delivery by moped is out. > This does not really explain the situation. Of course I would understand and accept a delay which growths linearly with the size of the country, translating 24 hours into a few days, but not into weeks. In the countries I was referring to, the bookstore does not have to go to the publisher, rather there is an efficient network of dealers inbetween. Probably this should be carried on - if at all - in another newsgroup. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ulrich Lauther Internet: lauther@janus.berkeley.edu Siemens / UCB ph: +1 415 642 3338 fax: 642 2739 +1 415 658 8529 home
jeremy@mips.COM (Jeremy M. Schneider) (07/12/90)
In article <1581@stsci.edu> siegel@stsci.EDU (Howard Siegel) writes: > > Computer Literacy > > Sunnyvale CA: 408-730-9555 ^^^^ Correction: 408-730-9955 -- Jeremy M. Schneider jeremy@mips.com MIPS Computer Systems {ames,decwrl,prls}!mips!jeremy 930 Arques Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94086 408-524-8105 (work)
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (07/13/90)
In article <1283@mtxinu.UUCP> jaap@mtxinu.UUCP (Jaap Akkerhuis) writes: >Please note that to my knowledge usenix doesn't endorse any bookshop, >so comp.org.usenix (or many of the other cross posted groups) is >not really the place to discuss the merits of bookshops etc. To my knowledge Usenix doesn't endorse skinny-dipping in hotel pools either, but it happens at Usenix conferences, so it is a reasonable topic of discussion in the newsgroup. JJ'sBS was prominent at quite a number of Usenix conferences for some years. Usually the best way to deal with an "inappropriate" discussion is to sigh and let it burn itself out. This one already has. -- NFS: all the nice semantics of MSDOS, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology and its performance and security too. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry