pat@grebyn.com (Pat Bahn) (03/14/91)
I am hoping to stir up a little controversy, on the subject of Usenix attendance policy. This is something I wanted to bring up at the open board meeting, but I got pinned down after my panel. So I thought I'd bring this up here. Question: Are Undergrads more valuable then working professionals? Answer: Yes, at least according to Usenix policy.... Now, should this be the case, and what do I mean by this. Well, as I see it, any undergrad is eligible for Massive (90%) student discounts and for student travel grants. Now, if one is a working professional, and currently without an employer, as far as Usenix is concerned, you are SOL... Now, I believe this policy reflects the fundamentally academic nature of Usenix and UNIX. Unix came out of Bell Labs, was fostered by Berkeleyandis the haven of academia, hence a concern for Full time students. Now, Students typically have no money and big college debts, so in some form of social justice, we give them a break. Why do we give them a break? So that they can be exposed to the technical comunity, and job hunt and help out maybe in running the show. After all, where would we be without evi and the terminal room gang. Of course, I believe this policy implies that people who have left academia of course have no debts, make a big or regular salary and can afford this as a pofessional expense. I believe this to be false, most of you now have mortgages that make student loans look pale, and very little in built up equity... Now if one is without a job, typically, you don't have that much survival time until homelessness occurs. hence job hunting is important. Usenix provides a place for people to network and hear of opportunities, as well as brush up technical skills by listening to papers as well as attending tutorials. I believe this service is invaluable to the unemployed or soon tobeunemployed... I propose that Usenix offer a 50% discount to unemployed attendees. Pros: It's socially responsible, it keeps people in the business and it won't cost much. Cons: It creates a job hunting environment, it's hard to administer it may cost us revenue base. Solution, limit the number of unemployed discounts to 15% of the full fee attendee, with them getting last dibs on tutorials.... I guess, we would have to use thehonor system, but are we not a community that implicityly trusts one another? Well, what does the community think? and what odes the board think? I buttonholed a few members at Dallas, but think the board should discuss the whole issues. -- ============================================================================= Pat @ grebyn.com | There is a fine line between art and insanity. 301-948-8142 | Pat Bahn =============================================================================
bcs@frenulum.eng.ufl.edu (Bradley C. Spatz) (03/14/91)
In article <1991Mar14.001156.15961@grebyn.com>, pat@grebyn.com (Pat Bahn) writes: |> |> I propose that Usenix offer a 50% discount to unemployed attendees. |> [...] |> Well, what does the community think? I think that's ludicrous, but then, I'm a student. So you go figure out how the time value of money fits in to this. -- Bradley C. Spatz Internet: bcs@ufl.edu Computer and Information Sciences UUCP: uunet!uflorida!bcs College of Engineering University of Florida "School IS hell" -- Matt Groening
jstewart@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Ace Stewart) (03/15/91)
This is certainly a worthwhile subject to talk about, and considering
the length of the message we'll have topics for years. I am coming
from the side of "I am an Undergrad/Grad student" so please take
these comments with that in mind.
First off, a very key difference in these two groups is income. I
realize that "adults <- careful there" have mortgage payments etc, but
with a $25,000 year salary, budgetary planning is considerably
different than OWEING that 3/4 of that to an institution. (If you
believe that to be false, think about a middle class family with one
person in college and you will realize that no assistance shows up.)
I would never have had the chance to attend USENIX without the
Berkeley Grant...are you hearing this? NEVER HAD A CHANCE. While I am
not discussing the unemployed issue, I take it the original poster has
been to these conferences on his own money. Quite frankly, I cannot do
that, you can, so there is something to be said for the way Berkeley
is doing things. (i.e. it's right)
As for the comparison as to USENIX and UNIX being designed that way,
quite frankly I think the comparison is pointless. I don't even
understand where it came from or why it was included. Elaborate? :)
As for the unemployed issue, I like it. I believe that people without
a chance should get one. At the same time, if they are unemployed and
receiving unemployment checks, what little I understand I think the
money should be directed to a flight to wherever this person is
considering working and use that money in a more "get to the employer
and interview." Just my opinion.
--Ace
--
Ace Stewart | Affiliation: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester, New York
jstewart@rodan.acs.syr.edu jstewart@sunrise.bitnet jstewart@mothra.cns.syr.edu
jstewart@sunspot.cns.syr.edu ace@suvm.bitnet rsjns@suvm.bitnetrick@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams) (03/15/91)
USENIX is an organization chartered to further education. Sending students to learn from conferences is clearly educational and within the charter. Sending people to conferences to look for jobs is not within the educational charter of the organizations.
pat@grebyn.com (Pat Bahn) (03/15/91)
In article <1991Mar14.202303.5159@rodan.acs.syr.edu> jstewart@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Ace Stewart) writes: >This is certainly a worthwhile subject to talk about, and considering >First off, a very key difference in these two groups is income. I >realize that "adults <- careful there" have mortgage payments etc, but >with a $25,000 year salary, budgetary planning is considerably >different than OWEING that 3/4 of that to an institution. (If you >believe that to be false, think about a middle class family with one >person in college and you will realize that no assistance shows up.) > True, but most people under age thirty still have student loan payments, Especially if you put yourself through school. >I would never have had the chance to attend USENIX without the >Berkeley Grant...are you hearing this? NEVER HAD A CHANCE. While I am >not discussing the unemployed issue, I take it the original poster has >been to these conferences on his own money. Quite frankly, I cannot do >that, you can, so there is something to be said for the way Berkeley >is doing things. (i.e. it's right) I agree perfectly. When I was an undergrad, I didn't have two nickels 70% of the time. If i was an undergrad now, the only way I could go to a usenix would be on a berkeley grant. Heck, when I go to usenix now, I split a room, to keep down costs...... My employers are pretty benighted. > >As for the comparison as to USENIX and UNIX being designed that way, >quite frankly I think the comparison is pointless. I don't even >understand where it came from or why it was included. Elaborate? :) > I was just pointing out that UNIX came out of an academic environment and that the people running usenix are very attuned to problems facing academics. I just wanted to point out that the community is a heck of a lot bigger now then a bunch of grad students. Unix was pretty much a research environment tool until the early 80's. >As for the unemployed issue, I like it. I believe that people without >a chance should get one. At the same time, if they are unemployed and >receiving unemployment checks, what little I understand I think the >money should be directed to a flight to wherever this person is >considering working and use that money in a more "get to the employer >and interview." Just my opinion. > I agree fully, it's just usenix allows you a chance to find out what companies are good, who is hiring and what is happening on the technology front. Spend a month out of the business and your amazed. Spend 6 months out and you are obsolete..... Oh, for the record. I still have a job, though that may be questionable. I also have used the student discounts when i was playing gradual student/ part time engineer. I agree wholeheartedly witht he policy of Student discounts and Student grants, I just think that they should be expanded to give a break to those job hunting. Actually I even thought of aan easy verification method. Send a copy of a current UI claim check. For those who are out of work consultants, I don't know. Consultants are supposed to plan for periods of down time. Salary men plan on the basis of continous employment. TTYL pat >--Ace >-- > Ace Stewart | Affiliation: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester, New York >jstewart@rodan.acs.syr.edu jstewart@sunrise.bitnet jstewart@mothra.cns.syr.edu > jstewart@sunspot.cns.syr.edu ace@suvm.bitnet rsjns@suvm.bitnet -- ============================================================================= Pat @ grebyn.com | There is a fine line between art and insanity. 301-948-8142 | Pat Bahn =============================================================================
jt@aeras.uucp (J T McDuffie) (03/15/91)
In all fairness - I don't think that 50% is enough at all, and unless there is a limit on the number of student "slots" there should be NO limit on the number of "unemployed" slots either. Fair is fair - and just because you're not currently employed should not mean that you are no longer valuable to the Usenix community. It is perhaps MORE important that you have the opportunity to maintain your technical knowledge then ever before. Back to the leading question: are students MORE valuable? Heck NO! BUT remembering when I had trouble affording 3 squares a day I can understand, and support, the desire to provide the new faces on the block the chance to hear someone else's theories and meet new faces (yeh, build the contacts to get a good job), etc. What I'm saying is that students are equally valued members of this association who are "underprivilaged" and need some special help once in awhile. -- <=======================================================================> < Disclamer: My opinions are my own. No one else seems to want them! > <=======================================================================> < James T. McDuffie, ARIX Corporation > < 821 Fox Lane, San Jose, California 95131 > < (408) 922-1879 / FAX: (408) 432-0263 > < uunet!sun!aeras!jt > <=======================================================================> -- --
n8743196@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Jeff Wandling) (03/17/91)
I'm a student and I tried to get a grant in order to help pay the costs.
In fact, three students from my university applied--- one girl actually
got money and the other used his rent money to go.
I didn't have any money, my parents couldn't afford it, and I couldn't
get finacial aid to save my life.
What's wrong here? A lot of students would *love* to go to USENIX. If you
don't actually go, you'll never really know what it's all about and what
companies are in the game.
I'm not sure if this is already possible, but I feel it would be really great
if at least the 'proceedings' of the conference were available for those
who can't actually be there (because of air-fare & room costs prevent many
from even getting within state lines!)
I would pay if I could. I feel that anyone who is gainfully employed and
attends USENIX should pay. If you need assistance and can show the need,
then you deserve a break (just how it's done already).
Students are just as important if not more important. Why do you think
I'm in college? To get a piece of paper that says I know what a AVLTree is?
No! I want my degree so I can go out there and do something extraordinary and
make a mark in the world.
$.02
--
Jeff Wandling USnail: 942 Beta \ B'ham WA \ 98225
Domain: jeff@arthur.cs.wwu.edu ATT: 1-206-647-5814bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen) (03/17/91)
I think the faulty premise here is that students go to make job contacts. Of the many students I know that have attended USENIX only one actually looked for a job and that was only because he had some spare time. It wasn't his intent when he made his arrangements. The primary reason to separate students from the unemployed has nothing to do with finances or employment records. It's simply that for many of these students, USENIX is the first time they get a chance to see what the real world is like. They get a taste of the research angle and a taste of the politics involved. Real world examples are as important to education as any textbook. And I fully support the current USENIX policy. I don't like the idea of cheapening USENIX to a "job fair". Devon
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (03/17/91)
In article <1991Mar15.021241.14858@aeras.uucp> jt@aeras.UUCP (J T McDuffie) writes: > Fair is fair - and just because you're not currently employed > should not mean that you are no longer valuable to the Usenix > community... The Usenix Association is not a government agency, able to obtain money just by printing more as necessary. Its funds are limited, and every penny of discount given to someone is one less penny available for education, publications, standards involvement, etc. Nor is it a charity, in business to help the unfortunate. Usenix has to focus not on whether you are "valuable to the Usenix community" but on whether spending scarce funds to help you attend will contribute directly to Usenix's goals. -- "But this *is* the simplified version | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology for the general public." -S. Harris | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
src@scuzzy.in-berlin.de (Heiko Blume) (03/18/91)
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1991Mar15.021241.14858@aeras.uucp> jt@aeras.UUCP (J T McDuffie) writes: >> Fair is fair - and just because you're not currently employed >> should not mean that you are no longer valuable to the Usenix >> community... >The Usenix Association is not a government agency, able to obtain money >just by printing more as necessary. Its funds are limited, and every penny >of discount given to someone is one less penny available for education, >publications, standards involvement, etc. Nor is it a charity, in business >to help the unfortunate. Usenix has to focus not on whether you are >"valuable to the Usenix community" but on whether spending scarce funds >to help you attend will contribute directly to Usenix's goals. while talking about standards: i wanted to hack GNU bash to use POSIX signals, therefore i had to buy 1003.1 to fully understand the signal facilities. guess what, i'm a student and had to shell out $100 for it! i'm used to pay the usual $50 for computer related stuff, but *that* book really hit the spot :-( not that i want to say usenix, POSIX etc should offer discounts for who-knows-who, but they should look into offering discounts for university/public libraries and tell them. that way they won't have the problem of spending money on attending while making the proceedings, standards etc available to everyone. you know, i started to wonder when the CS library of my >100000 student university referred me to the local book shops for obtaining POSIX documents..... -- Heiko Blume <-+-> src@scuzzy.in-berlin.de <-+-> (+49 30) 691 88 93 public UNIX source archive [HST V.42bis]: scuzzy Any ACU,f 38400 6919520 gin:--gin: nuucp sword: nuucp uucp scuzzy!/src/README /your/home
henry@athena.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) (03/18/91)
rick@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams) writes: |> Sending people to conferences to look for jobs is not within the educational |> charter of the organizations. nobody said these people were being sent to look for work (although the looking for work will certainly happen). unemployed people still learn (and, in fact, it is in their best interest to do so). -- # Henry Mensch / <henry@mit.edu> / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA # <hmensch@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay> / <henry@tts.lth.se> / <mensch@munnari.oz.au> # via X.400: S=mensch; OU=informatik; P=tu-muenchen; A=dbp; C=de
jt@aeras.uucp (J T McDuffie) (03/18/91)
In article <1991Mar16.224820.2834@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1991Mar15.021241.14858@aeras.uucp> jt@aeras.UUCP (J T McDuffie) writes: >> Fair is fair - and just because you're not currently employed >> should not mean that you are no longer valuable to the Usenix >> community... > >The Usenix Association is not a government agency, able to obtain money >just by printing more as necessary. Its funds are limited, and every penny >of discount given to someone is one less penny available for education, >publications, standards involvement, etc. Nor is it a charity, in business >to help the unfortunate. Usenix has to focus not on whether you are >"valuable to the Usenix community" but on whether spending scarce funds >to help you attend will contribute directly to Usenix's goals. Yes, but... Furthering the goals of Usenix (education being one mentioned heavily herein) entails that a number of factors be evaluated. Perhaps job hunting is NOT a valid reason for attending a Usenix conference; the education of those attending defitnatly is. And who is in greater need of education or educational update? I would argue that the student is already in the best possible place to obtain a *current* education; the currently employeed tends to fall behind the leading edge - simply because she's too busy doing to really keep up (a real prime reason to attend conferences); and the unemployeed is falling farther and farther behind each week they remain in that state. So, who is best served in meeting the goals of the association using grants, etc.? --
timr@hpwarcz.wal.hp.com (Tim Rice) (03/19/91)
There are a few aspects here that haven't been mentioned, of course,
around costs.
1. Cost of enrollment for conference
2. Cost of airfare, room, etc.
3. Loss of work
1. viewed as company/course time
2. viewed as vacation time
3. viewed as leave of absence
I have been in the industry for what is considered an eon by most. When
I first attended
a conference in was on company time and expense, didn't cost me a penny.
All I needed to do
was put in a request, paperwork also done on company time, and fill out
a trip report after-
wards. This is the best of all. From here it gets more complicated, it
becomes personal!
I am certainly on the other side of the fence from students today, from
what I'm hearing.
My school and personal situation never allowed me the oportunity you now
have. Those that
are unemployed and employed may have never attended a conference for the
same reasons.
Apparently, if you're good (at what you do) you've been to a conference.
Most likely this
was at someone else's expense.
The dam was opened for students...
Now you have a delima...
Students
Un-employed
self-employed
consultants (not all make big bucks, some make less than you)
employed (professionals? Where do professor's fall in?)
Personally, I'm one of those high paid consultants. I must say though,
I have to look real
hard at the benefits before I spend $4-5k on a week conference. If the
companies I'm
dealing with can even spare me the time, after all, I'm supposed to know
it all ;-)
P.S. I've never been to this show. I leave it to you to decide what
professionals do attend.
Maybe, there is a technical base being left out???henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar17.231523.27668@scuzzy.in-berlin.de> src@scuzzy.in-berlin.de (Heiko Blume) writes: >not that i want to say usenix, POSIX etc should offer discounts >for who-knows-who, but they should look into offering discounts >for university/public libraries and tell them... Actually, this has nothing to do with Usenix. Usenix has participated in the development of various standards, notably POSIX, but is not involved in publishing them. For this one you get to blame IEEE. -- "[Some people] positively *wish* to | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology believe ill of the modern world."-R.Peto| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
rick@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar18.030846.19529@athena.mit.edu>, henry@athena.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) writes: > rick@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams) writes: > |> Sending people to conferences to look for jobs is not within the educational > |> charter of the organizations. > > nobody said these people were being sent to look for work (although the > looking for work will certainly happen). unemployed people still learn (and, > in fact, it is in their best interest to do so). > From the article that started this: Now if one is without a job, typically, you don't have that much survival time until homelessness occurs. hence job hunting is important. Usenix provides a place for people to network and hear of opportunities, as well as brush up technical skills by listening to papers as well as attending tutorials. I believe this service is invaluable to the unemployed or soon tobeunemployed... I propose that Usenix offer a 50% discount to unemployed attendees. Pros: It's socially responsible, it keeps people in the business and it won't cost much. Cons: It creates a job hunting environment, it's hard to administer it may cost us revenue base. Exactly how should I interpret this other than going job hunting? It seems rather straightforward to me. Note the only reference to learning "as well as" ---rick
tuann@whiteoak.EBay.Sun.COM (T Nguyen) (03/21/91)
In-Reply-To: <126038@uunet.UU.NET> References: <1991Mar14.001156.15961@grebyn.com> <125577@uunet.UU.NET> <1991Mar18.030846.19529@athena.mit.edu> In article <126038@uunet.UU.NET> you write: >In article <1991Mar18.030846.19529@athena.mit.edu>, henry@athena.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) writes: >> rick@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams) writes: >> |> Sending people to conferences to look for jobs is not within the educational >> |> charter of the organizations. >> >> nobody said these people were being sent to look for work (although the >> looking for work will certainly happen). unemployed people still learn (and, >> in fact, it is in their best interest to do so). >> > From the article that started this: > > Now if one is without a job, typically, you don't have that much > survival time until homelessness occurs. hence job hunting is > important. You alway have to prepare for your career growth, if you don't, then don't blame anyone else except yourself. You are responsible for your life not USENIX. > > Usenix provides a place for people to network and hear of opportunities, > as well as brush up technical skills by listening to papers as well > as attending tutorials. > If your skill is really good, I doubt that you would be unemployed. Present your "hot" paper(to make SRV 4 obsolete !!!) at USENIX, then you will see how companies go after you as a "hot shot" computer professional. If you are not competitive in the job market, it does not improve your situation no matter where you go. > I believe this service is invaluable to the unemployed or soon > tobeunemployed... > > I propose that Usenix offer a 50% discount to unemployed attendees. I don't think it is right, you don't have to pay for the conference to get into job booths. I think they are outside the conference area, so it is not reasonable to ask for 50% off because others have to pay to subsidize you. USENIX is not in the business of employment agency, it is for educational, and information exchange. That's why the students get discount. You want 50% off, become a student. You want to look for job, read Sunday newspaper, trade magazines, misc.jobs.offered, head hunter always welcome you, etc. Don't expect USENIX to provide employment opportunity or make others pay for your UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT. If you don't have the money to go to USENIX for education purpose, go to the library to read USENIX proceedings, don't ask a non-profit organization to subsidize you with unemployment benefit. > > Pros: It's socially responsible, it keeps people in the business and > it won't cost much. It costs me, and others who pay full conference fees.!!! The government has a social responsibility, not USENIX. Don't go to USENIX or its board of directors with your misfortune, and ask them for the obligation. > > Cons: It creates a job hunting environment, it's hard to administer > it may cost us revenue base. > I don't expect USENIX to become WESTECH or JOB-EXPO. > >Exactly how should I interpret this other than going job hunting? >It seems rather straightforward to me. Note the only reference >to learning "as well as" > >---rick
david@dhw68k.cts.com (David H. Wolfskill) (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar14.001156.15961@grebyn.com> pat@grebyn.com (Pat Bahn) writes: >Question: Are Undergrads more valuable then working professionals? >Answer: Yes, at least according to Usenix policy.... >Now, if one is a working professional, and currently without an >employer, as far as Usenix is concerned, you are SOL... Based on the thrust of the later parts of the posting, it seems reasonable to interpret the above "currently without an employer" as "currently without employment" -- perhaps a subtle distinction. However, I confess to a certain amount of puzzlement in attempting to reconcile how someone who is currently without employment might be considered a *working* professional. (No, I'm not trying to be especially obtuse; it may be argued that I do so naturally anyhow, though.... :-) >Of course, I believe this policy implies that people who have left >academia of course have no debts, make a big or regular salary and can >afford this as a pofessional expense. Well, you're entitled to the opinion -- but I fail to understand how you arrived at it. >Now if one is without a job, typically, you don't have that much >survival time until homelessness occurs. hence job hunting is >important. Sure it is; no argument there. The net can be a very useful resource for a lot less money -- I have been giving away accounts on this machine. (Sorry, the filesystem where folks have their personal files is quite full, so I'm not accepting new requests until that's changed.) >Usenix provides a place for people to network and hear of opportunities, >as well as brush up technical skills by listening to papers as well >as attending tutorials. As for the ability to "network" (I confess to a certain discomfort in thinking of "to network" as a verb), I suggest that a conference tends to emphasize synchronous communication, while media such as the net emphasize asynchronous communication. (That is, for the former, the parties involved need to be devoting resources to the communication at the same time, while with the latter, there is a "time ordering" constraint, but the resources need not be devoted at the same time.) I suggest that asynchronous communication allows one to involve more parties with a given amount of effort -- which would seem ideal for job-hunting. Also, the conference proceedings are available even to folks who don't make it to USENIX -- fortunately for me: I happen to have regular employment (for which I am thankful)... but it has nothing whatsoever to do with UNIX or USENIX. This machine (that I am using now) is our (my wife's & mine) personal machine; I bought its original incarnation in late 1984 because I believed then that it would probably be useful for me to have unrestricted access to a machine that could run a "real" operating system, have access to USENET, and allow me to learn some C and UNIX. Although my employment then (and employment now -- different employer, similar work -- I call it "migrant labor" :-) does not involve UNIX, I have not regretted the decision. I fully expect that at some point in the (not-too-distant) future, some of the knowledge I have thus gained will be put to good use for an employer. (Indeed, I have been able to point out a few things to colleagues, based on information I've picked up -- some of it even from the net...!) In any case, I joined /usr/group (which now calls itself "UniForum") and USENIX -- largely because I perceived that much of what they were doing was generally good. (BTW, "kudos" to the USENIX board -- I continue to be impressed by the things you are able to accomplish... publishing the BSD manuals, getting UUNET started, and publishing Computing Systems come immediately to mind.) I am able to attend USENIX only when it's in Anaheim (the convention center is about halfway between home & work) -- and then I took vacation time to do it. Even if the USENIX Assn. were to allow me to attend absolutely free, I wouldn't be able to attend elsewhere -- what with travel, food, & lodging expense -- without going through a lot more hassle than I have time for (except maybe SF Bay area -- my parents live in Pacifica). >I propose that Usenix offer a 50% discount to unemployed attendees. >Pros: It's socially responsible, it keeps people in the business and > it won't cost much. Saying "it won't cost much" is one thing; backing this up with figures is another. I'd prefer to work with the numbers before making a judgement. Putting on a conference involves real money, which must come from somewhere. >Cons: It creates a job hunting environment, it's hard to administer > it may cost us revenue base. Indeed; if a "job hunting environment" is created, more employers may well be less inclined to send folks. Some conferences explicitly discourage such activity for this (stated) reason. >I guess, we would have to use thehonor system, but are we not a >community that implicityly trusts one another? Probably less so as time passes.... :-} >Well, what does the community think? and what odes the board think? This part of the community thinks that it's probably a good thing that you brought up the issue; however, I also think that those involved in the issue should take a giant step back & re-analyze what is the problem that you are attempting to address, whether or not it is reasonably the job of the USENIX Assn. to address the problem, and if so, how we might do so. Hope there's enough useful up there to make it worth reading, david -- David H. Wolfskill uucp: ...{spsd,zardoz,felix}!dhw68k!david InterNet: david@dhw68k.cts.com CompuServe: >internet:david@dhw68k.cts.com
bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) (03/26/91)
I am trying hard to understand some of this thread...but let me make a
few comments anyhow (and understand I am quite open to disagreement,
consider this a first cut):
The majority of the expense of a USENIX conference, to an attendee, is
the travel and lodging (assuming it's not in his or her home town.) I
assume no one is suggesting USENIX provide airline tickets or hotel
rooms, so we'll skip that part.
All that I can see suggested here is either a free or discounted
registration.
Now, what does a registration get you?
A) Entry to the talks.
B) Entry to the exhibit, when there is one.
C) A copy of the proceedings.
D) Entry to the reception.
E) A nametag.
Going through that list, and keeping job-hunting in mind, I doubt
anyone job hunts in the talks, since they're usually lecture-style and
the common etiquette is sitting quietly in a darkened room. Hardly the
atmosphere for people-networking, this is the brain-food part of the
conference.
The exhibit might be a fine place to job-hunt, I believe inexpensive
($10?) exhibit-only passes are available, and I think exhibit-only
comps are usually available from vendors. Maybe I'm wrong on this one,
I'm shooting from the hip.
A copy of the proceedings can be bought later, they're relatively
inexpensive, $15-$20, and not directly related to job-hunting at the
conference. I assume everyone can see the real cost (printing etc)
associated with these. Consider borrowing one at the conference if you
feel like you want to at least know what's going on in the talks.
The reception might be a great place to people-network, and extra
tickets are always for sale for, I dunno, $35-$50. Putting a note up
on the bulletin board to the effect of "anyone not using their
reception ticket?" might yield a freebie, or a cheapie.
What I am trying to get at here is that, to paraphrase Lenny Bruce, in
the halls of the conferences, the conferencing goes on in the halls.
You've got 1500-2500 fellow professionals mostly located in one hotel.
You're trying to find a job.
Show up, check into the hotel (I don't remember anyone checking if
you're actually registered before giving you the conference rate, tho
you might be more interested in a nearby, inexpensive room that's less
than the conference rate), hang around the halls and talk to people,
in the evenings show up at the bar, drop into the vendor hospitality
suites, go out to lunch with some folks, get up early and catch the
breakfast crowd, etc etc.
It seems to me that for about $50 outlay (for the reception), besides
travel+lodging, about all you'd be missing would be the talks. If
you're desparately looking for a job you don't have time for the
talks, plan on buying the proceedings, when you're more solvent, to
catch up on what you missed.
But, to some extent, we have done you a great service: We have brought
together ~2000 of your colleagues and told you exactly where they will
be for a few days. It doesn't take a lot of spunk to figure out what
to do next!
AND...if you really want to get into the talks, and don't have the
bucks, speak to the usenix office about various volunteer things you
might be able to do to get a full comp registration. Just don't call
the day before the conference or at the conference, do it as soon as
you think you might want it (ok, timing may not work out, but as I
said above it's not clear that this is the most important component.)
This doesn't seem to me like a real problem.
As far as being inundated with job-hunters, I doubt this would be a
problem. It's not like it would be easy for a total stranger to walk
off the street and figure out how to work a usenix conference, less
likely that someone unfamiliar would pay to travel just to do this.
So I assume we're talking about "regulars", people who are part of the
same crowd, usually attend the conferences and want to catch up with
old friends to try to land a job. Hey, please drop by!
I assure you, exactly what I describe is done regularly.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | bzs@world.std.com | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLDamanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (03/27/91)
bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) writes: >I assure you, exactly what I describe is done regularly. Indeed. Why, I've done it myself a couple times (albeit for general schmoozing with friends, not necessarily job-hunting), and I can think of at least one person that I see at every Usenix, and whom I have never known to actually have a badge... If you are willing give up the technical sessions, it should be possible to "do Usenix" quite cheaply. Transportation and lodging become the constraining factor... What the conference fee gives you is generally: - A free copy of the proceedings. - A free badge for the vendor room (or Uniforum, whichever applies). - A membership in the Usenix Association if you don't already have one. - The ability to attend the tutorials and technical sessions. - Free admittance to the reception [although Dallas turned out to be obnoxiously crashable this Winter :(]. - A studly Usenix nametag. If you can do without these (and can spare a relatively few bucks for the second and fifth things, if you want them), it should be just as easy to (ahem) network (sorry) as if you had gotten a discounted rate. You just happen to be there while Usenix is going on. -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- "Never tell people how to do things; Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." --Gen. George S. Patton Jr.