[comp.edu] Cheating on Assignments

edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) (04/21/87)

In article <11370002@hpldorp.HP.COM> kens@hpldorp.HP.COM (Ken Shrum) writes:
>With regard to `fractional cheating' - the manner in which a student
>performs/completes an assignment is either in accordance with
>instructions or not.  I see no gray area.  If the student isn't
>supposed to get outside help, use literature references, use
>non-textbook references, etc.  and then proceeds to anyway then
>cheating has occurred.

 So lets see now. If we get a student who has read a certain book
 before taking the class and comes to this assignment with those 
 stipulations, the student should disqualify himself and probably
 drop the class. To do otherwise would surely test his integrity as
 you put it. Once something has been read it quickly becomes meshed
 with other books. The only way to prove that the idea or whatever
 did not come from a certain book would be to reference the book 
 again. What if the reference that you read was in a passage in a
 completely different book? 

 The instructions are clear. There is no grey area. Following the
 instructions is not so clear. Humans are not perfect, their memories
 are not usually photographic, but reconstructive. If what you mean
 by no grey area, "doing the best one can to not violate these rules",
 then what you say is arguably possible. Then what you are doing is
 calling grey not grey. Meaning that you are redefining grey to mean
 something else. What I mean by grey is exactly "doing the best one
 can to not violate these rules". The instructions must be interpreted
 by everyone in the class, sometimes that means, even on the most
 integrity, as many ways as students in the class. At least it means 
 their is more than one interpretation.

>Taking a class multiple times (regardless of where), having better
>background knowledge, or being able to spend additional time on the
>class is neither cheating nor an unfair advantage over other students.

  Well, then I have to wish that all the classes that you take in the
  future, everyone in the class except you has taken it, that you are
  as bright as everyone else in the class, and the professor strongly
  believes in the bell curve grading system. I then wish that this
  luck follow you through your life. (Nothing personal, because this
  should not bother you. It is not an unfair disadvantage as you have
  stated above.)

>As a closing note, it rather bothers me that people are looking for an
>exact definition of what is cheating and what is not.  Is this so that
>they can abide by the letter of the law yet cheat anyway by finding
>loopholes?  We're talking personal integrity here, folks.

   The reason that we look for an exact definition is so we have a
   common ground on which to talk from. My definition of loopholes is
   fuzzy areas in the definition that could stand to be redefined. If
   we do not mean the same thing when we say a word, we can not argue
   and come to some ending point using that word.

   I try to use great integrity in everything I do. Of course it does
   not always come out that way, best intentions intended often have
   the worst results.

   Cheers,
   mark
-- 
    edwards@unix.macc.wisc.edu
    {allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!edwards
    UW-Madison, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison WI 53706

kens@hpldola.HP.COM (Ken Shrum) (04/24/87)

As usual, my fuzzy command of English gets me into trouble.  Allow me
to explain what I mean.

The objective of taking a course is to learn.  Grades are some
indication of how much you've learned, although this doesn't
necessarily hold with bell curve grading systems.  It has been pointed
out elsewhere in this discussion that *ultimately* a cheater cheats
noone but him/herself.  Again, I realize that sometimes this is not
true - degrees from school X where cheating is prevalent lose their
value;  in curve-graded courses someone elses decreased grade keeps
them out of grad school, loses them their scholarship or reduces job
offers.  It is my experience, however, that *most* places recognize
that grades are only an indicator, so that references and interviews
must be used to find out what someone knows and how well they may use
that knowledge.

Re: disallowed references, etc.

> So lets see now. If we get a student who has read a certain book
> before taking the class and comes to this assignment with those 
> stipulations, the student should disqualify himself and probably
> drop the class.

My apologies, I had meant to imply that you shouldn't use such
references during the course of completing the assignment.  I have seen
very few courses (some, though) that disallow certain prior knowledge.
I mention background knowledge further on explicitly as not being
cheating.

Re:  grey and non-grey.

If instructions are ambiguous, by which I mean they may be legitimately
interpreted in multiple ways, then *any* such interpretation may be
allowed.  By legitimate I mean that an impartial group would agree that
yes, those instructions could be interpreted by an honest person in
that manner.

I hate this.  I just want to assume that everyone's honest and treat
them with respect and trust.  Let me fall back on an argument of
Pirsig's - you *know* when someone has cheated, just as you can discern
which of two pictures you like better.  It's not analytical, but it
works.  If there's doubt, let it go.  If it appears to be a
misunderstanding, give that person a second assignment and agree on the
groundrules.

>  Well, then I have to wish that all the classes that you take in the
>  future, everyone in the class except you has taken it, that you are
>  as bright as everyone else in the class, and the professor strongly
>  believes in the bell curve grading system. I then wish that this
>  luck follow you through your life. (Nothing personal, because this
>  should not bother you. It is not an unfair disadvantage as you have
>  stated above.)

You assume that I'm taking a course to get a grade.  I'm taking it to
learn.  If they're all that good, I'll find out.  If I care about the
grade, I'll do as much work as I need to.  And you're right, how well
other people do in the course doesn't bother me, though I might wonder
why they're there.

>    edwards@unix.macc.wisc.edu

	Ken Shrum
	hpldola!kenh: