davims@mhuxu.UUCP (07/17/87)
My boyfriend is a May 1987 graduate in CS. He asked some of his former
teachers for recommendations, and they said they'd be happy to oblige.
When my boyfriend received his letters of recommendations from the teachers,
they turned out not to be "recommendations" at all. They said some pretty
nasty things about him that outweighed any good points.
Has anyone out there ever heard of something like this happening? Why did
these teachers even bother to write their so-called "letters of
recommendation" if they were just planning on saying nasty things?
To the professors out there: Personally, what do you do if a student you
don't have a high opinion of asks you for a letter of recommendation?
Please answer through the network. Thanks. Laura
P.S. My boyfriend threw out these letters. What a waste of time for every-
one involved!
--
John B. Lo Coco
(mhuxu!davims)
(mhuxu!ogre)
1-201-467-7436uccjcm@ecsvax.UUCP (Jonathon C. McLendon IV) (07/18/87)
In article <6633@mhuxu.UUCP>, davims@mhuxu.UUCP writes: > My boyfriend is a May 1987 graduate in CS. He asked some of his former > teachers for recommendations, and they said they'd be happy to oblige. > When my boyfriend received his letters of recommendations from the teachers, > they turned out not to be "recommendations" at all. They said some pretty > nasty things about him that outweighed any good points. > > Has anyone out there ever heard of something like this happening? Why did > these teachers even bother to write their so-called "letters of > recommendation" if they were just planning on saying nasty things? > > To the professors out there: Personally, what do you do if a student you > don't have a high opinion of asks you for a letter of recommendation? How exactly did he know what they said? There are two kinds of recommendations: open and closed, that is, those that are open to the recommendee and those that are closed to the recomendee. As someone who interviews and hires CS grads, I usually place little or no weight on an open recommendation. I suspect that 'boyfriend' knew he was going to get a crummy rec and that's why he got an open recommendation. Additionally, I have nothing but empathy for a professor who has to put up with a student who is a pain in the a**. (whether your boyfriend is or is not one, I do not know) I presume he wanted an honest rec, and I suppose he got one. In any case, I wouldn't place too much emphasis on it. I'm on my third job in this industry, and only one employer actually bothered to check my references, and when they did, because they couldn't reach the prof, they talked to the secretaries! (I always knew all that sweet talking would pay off)
ragerj@nucsrl.UUCP (John Rager) (07/18/87)
I have been teaching for about 8 years. When I am asked to write a recommendation for someone for whom I do not feel I can write a good letter, I tell them. They often request (insist) that I write it anyway, because it is the best they are going to get. Many professors will write bad recs. Perhaps it is easier to understand this if you think about a letter as being an 'evaluation', rather than an endorsement. I am surprised that your boyfriend got to see/evaluate the letters. That is quite unusual. John Rager
fpst@hubcap.UUCP (Dennis Stevenson) (07/18/87)
In article <6633@mhuxu.UUCP>, davims@mhuxu.UUCP writes: > [...] crumm recommendations I've been on both sides of the coin - I did a lot of interviewing etc of job candidates when in industy and now I'm in academia. I simply tell them that I cannot give them a recommendation. I've only hand the problem once. Of late, I find a lot more companies are calling direct and questioning me. I'll be honest, I like that system better - it cuts out the c---. Steve
mc@notecnirp.Princeton.EDU (Mara Chibnik) (07/20/87)
In article <6633@mhuxu.UUCP> davims@mhuxu.UUCP (SZ-LOCOCO,JOHN) writes: }My boyfriend is a May 1987 graduate in CS. He asked some of his former }teachers for recommendations, and they said they'd be happy to oblige. }When my boyfriend received his letters of recommendations from the teachers, }they turned out not to be "recommendations" at all. They said some pretty }nasty things about him that outweighed any good points. }Has anyone out there ever heard of something like this happening? Why did }these teachers even bother to write their so-called "letters of }recommendation" if they were just planning on saying nasty things? Yes, I've heard of a case like this. The student in question (it isn't me and I don't want to be more specific) is now comfortably ensconced in a graduate program of good reputation and also holds a part-time research position at a highly-respected industrial research facility, so it wasn't fatal. In this case, to the best of my knowledge, it was a single letter that was a problem. Again, the letter mentioned a number of good qualities, but it was clear that the writer felt that some negative characteristics far outweighed these. (The good points were academic and technical. The bad ones were personal.) The student was, of course, much distressed. And, especially, had signed the waiver, so was not entitled to read the recommendation. (How that all happened is something that I never got into.) }To the professors out there: Personally, what do you do if a student you }don't have a high opinion of asks you for a letter of recommendation? I taught parttime for several years and have had to write recommendatons. My own approach depends on what happens between the student and me in the requesting process. 1. First, when a student approaches me for a recommendation, if the student is someone I think well of in a general sense, but who really can't cut it in my field, I ask about plans for the future and discuss these in terms of my assessment of potential. I try to end up by saying something that amounts to "Well, if you want a recommendation for [something I think you would be good at] I'll be happy to write one." (Fill in the square brackets with a specific.) This is constructive, and helps to get the message across that I wouldn't be comfortable writing a general recommendation. 2. If the student is someone I don't know well enough to write a letter for, I say so, and ask what other teachers have been approached, to try to suggest someone more suitable. Sometimes we find one. Sometimes there are compelling reasons to worry about the "more suitable" teacher's letter (as in your boyfriend's case). In such cases, it is sometimes possible for me to interview the student sufficiently to write a letter based on what comes through at the interview. (This is something that doesn't happen too often, because I'm not generally so ready to offer that kind of help to a student whose work I don't know well enough so I could have written the letter without that.) Often I've been able to steer the student to an appropriate recommender, maybe in another department. 3. If for any reason I can't do these things, my technique is what is usually referred to as "damning with faint praise." That is, I say nothing bad, but no raves. I mention the name of the course the student took with me, its content, the student's final grade (or say the work was satisfactory or good, depending)-- in other words, I say nothing bad, and go on record as validating that the student's application is bona fide, but really no more. And I do NOT do this without letting the student know I have reservations unless I have no way of communicating with the student. 4. In extreme circumstances, I do nothing. (I got a letter from a former student who needed a recommendation in a hurry. He was out of town. He had done work for me that was barely passable, despite having the obvious ability to do excellent work. I had put it to him while he was my student that I was unfavorably impressed by his performance. I threw his letter away.
chavey@speedy.WISC.EDU (Darrah Chavey) (07/20/87)
In article <6633@mhuxu.UUCP>, davims@mhuxu.UUCP writes: > My boyfriend is a May 1987 graduate in CS. He asked some of his former > teachers for recommendations, and they said they'd be happy to oblige. > When my boyfriend received his letters of recommendations from the teachers, > they turned out not to be "recommendations" at all. They said some pretty > nasty things about him that outweighed any good points. > > To the professors out there: Personally, what do you do if a student you > don't have a high opinion of asks you for a letter of recommendation? > I have had weak students ask me for letters of recommendation. I am always careful to point out to them that, although I can say (good stuff), I will be obligated to also say (bad stuff). Here, the good stuff and the bad stuff depend on the student. I have never had such a student reconsider asking me to write the letter. I assume that they already knew my letter would be luke warm, and they didn't know anyone else from whom they could get a stronger letter. It sounds like these professors just assumed that such was the case and didn't bother to ask. Darrah Chavey Computer Sciences Department University of Wisconsin, Madison WI chavey@cs.wisc.edu ...{ihnp4,seismo,allegra}!uwvax!chavey
mason@Pescadero.ARPA (Tony Mason) (07/22/87)
>> My boyfriend is a May 1987 graduate in CS. He asked some of his former >> teachers for recommendations, and they said they'd be happy to oblige. >> When my boyfriend received his letters of recommendations from the teachers, >> they turned out not to be "recommendations" at all. They said some pretty >> nasty things about him that outweighed any good points. >> >> To the professors out there: Personally, what do you do if a student you >> don't have a high opinion of asks you for a letter of recommendation? > > It sounds like these professors >just assumed that such was the case and didn't bother to ask. Sometimes, maybe they do it out of spite. When I was applying to college, out of high school, I asked about seven teachers to write letters for me. Of those, I had one who decided to "get even" and write bad letters. Maybe this can occur as a fluke, but the guy who wrote those letters I had had for seven classes over a span of two and a half years. The letter he wrote was caustic. It didn't mention ANY good points, and he tore me down as much as he could. However, he didn't mention anything to me when he said he would write them (he wrote *three*.) Why? I've been asking myself that question ever since. He couldn't even say I was a bad student - I had a 4.0 from his classes, and a 3.9 overall. But he found something bad to say. Worst of all, I had trusted him. The guy was my debate coach for two and a half years. Just goes to show you cannot trust anybody. Tony Mason DSG Stanford Univ. mason@pescadero (But, I still went to college, got a degree, and now am out in the real world.)