patth@dasys1.UUCP (Patt Haring) (12/16/87)
Downloaded from BIG NET BBS 212-769-0500 (300/1200 baud, 24 hrs) Fred Goldberg, Ph.D., Director of Telecommunications for New York City's Board of Education is the SYSOP of Big Net BBS. ONLINE RESEARCH IN THE CLASSROOM Special Guest: Fred Goldberg, NYC Public Schools An Online COnference - 9/10/87 in CIS' EDucation Forum The following Edforum members attended: User ID Nod Name / Forum Area ---- ------------ --- --- ----------------- 76703,266 CSW GG (Georgia Griffith) 70007,1376 NYK Fred (Fred Goldberg) 76067,1403 SYR Dan Lake 73537,3544 CVK Jim 72300,3165 NYK Anneliese Sessa 76703,674 WBR Chuck (Chuck Lynd) 71350,627 TOM RICHARD DAVIDSON 74270,1535 CGW Elizabeth Goldwyn 76703,2033 CSG Dave Winslow 71500,353 SEA Jeff Golub 73240,2663 AGA LOUISE BOWEN (Chuck Lynd) I think we can begin with questions for Fred Goldberg.. I hope some of you had a chance to read his article... in DL 10; I know that Dan Lake did... Dan if you want to begin, ga <Liz, you are next> (Dan Lake) Fred, you state that you think telecom is failing to enter classrooms... (Dan Lake) I think that we have only begun to move there, so how can failure be stated in any form? ga (Chuck Lynd) Fred, want to comment on that? ga (Fred) yes, we have just begun using telecomm but I am afraid ... (Fred) we are falling into a similar trap to that of the .. (Fred) early literacy programs. Lots of fluff--lots of misdirection... (Fred) and not enough in subject matter. ga (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga dan (Dan Lake) I think we are just emerging from period of intense exploration... (Dan Lake) and that software developers are only now responding... (Dan Lake) to need for transparency. ga (Chuck Lynd) fred.. (Jeff Golub) ? (Chuck Lynd) want to comment? or if not, jeff, you are next. ga (Fred) There are as many as 300 students in Manhattan alone using telecomm... (Fred) if there is intense exploration, I have not seen it... (Fred) what I have seen is teachers taking pot shots at a.. (Fred) tech they have not been prepared to understand and use.. (Fred) there is enough sound experience out there .. (Fred) now for us to give positive direction to our schools.. (Fred) it is our job to do that now and not at some .. (Fred) later date when "enough exploration has taken place"... (Fred) let's use the coventional classroom models ... (Fred) to help us get off on the right foot with telecomm ga (Chuck Lynd) ok, jeff, do you still have a ? ga (Jeff Golub) Yes.... (Jeff Golub) I see a real fragmentation here...The Haves... (Jeff Golub) those who have an awareness and an ability... (Jeff Golub) in this area of telecom... (Jeff Golub) are moving away from the Have Nots... (Jeff Golub) Those teachers who do not understand.... (Jeff Golub) the telecom are not taking "pot shots" so much as... (Jeff Golub) ignoring the medium...so any exploration... (Jeff Golub) or advances appear to be happening on such an... (Jeff Golub) individual level that I don't see any coordinated.... (Jeff Golub) programs or efforts emerging any time soon... (Jeff Golub) But it sure is neat to see what those individuals.... (Jeff Golub) can do...Dan Lake, by the way, is one of those... (Jeff Golub) extraordinary individuals...but don't tell him... (Jeff Golub) that. ga (Chuck Lynd) ha! (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga dan (Fred) ! (Dan Lake) I am sure that a coordinated effort will emerge this next year. ga (Chuck Lynd) ga fred (Dave Winslow) ? (Fred) Jeff makes some execellent points.. (Fred) There are several ways to attack the problem of "have nots"... (Fred) the bottom line of course is the financial committment... (Anneliese Sessa) ! (Fred) of the school districts. This includes staff development.. (Fred) money for modems, curr activities... (Fred) and in our case loaner computers ... (Fred) with modems to be sent home with students on three month cycles... (Fred) staff development is the key ga (Chuck Lynd) first dave, then anne (Dave Winslow) Anyone have any ideas of how to solve... (Dave Winslow) the time problem?... (Dave Winslow) I have lots of ideas, but not enough time. ga (Chuck Lynd) ga fred (Fred) Dave, by time problem do you refer to time on task... (Fred) or time for training... (Fred) time on task is a management problem we find... (Fred) across the curr board... (Fred) time for training involves money... (Fred) solutions there are harder to find. ga (Chuck Lynd) dave? ga (Dave Winslow) I am not as concerned about the training... (Dave Winslow) it is a matter of time on my part of being.. (Dave Winslow) able to cover my other "teaching duties" and then find time... (Dave Winslow) to investigate all the possibilities in telecomm.ga (Chuck Lynd) comment fred? ga (Jeff Golub) ? (Fred) I understand what you are saying Dave... (Fred) The problem is one again that requires an up front... (Fred) commitment at district and school level... (Fred) as an example, NYC installed 500 computer labs in ... (Fred) its high schools in a 3 year period... (Fred) teachers now are required to use those labs... (Fred) they say basically what you say; that is,... (Fred) my other duties demand so much time how can I... (Fred) hope to use the new equipment properly... (Fred) our answer has been to work with principals... (Fred) and superintendents to plug the time into... (Fred) the structure before the classes begin... (Fred) this may be of little comfort to you... (Fred) but it's an honest attempt by concerned... (Fred) and realistic educators to deal with difficult problems.ga (Chuck Lynd) thanks, fred (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) first, i think anne had a question; ga anne (Anneliese Sessa) ok...a change of curriculum looks in order..combine subjects, e.g., English, Social (Anneliese Sessa) Studies, etc, interview globally someone world wide experiences (Anneliese Sessa) poets, authors etc. (Dave Winslow) ! (Chuck Lynd) That is a nice idea, anne!... (Chuck Lynd) first, jeff, then dan (Fred) ! (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga fred, then some questions (Anneliese Sessa) I have done it myself ga (Fred) Anneliese is driving ... (Fred) to the heart of the matter. Making telecomm an effective... (Fred) vehicle for delivering classroom instruction... (Fred) on-line experts, mentor programs and computer... (Fred) mediated dialog. The opportunities... (Fred) for global education are enormous... (Fred) that is why we are working with the UN... (Fred) to have an open gateway from our NYC... (Fred) telecomm bulletin board to their NGO bulletin board... (Fred) this way students can talk to world leaders... (Fred) and get weekly summaries of all non-govt. organ. ga (Chuck Lynd) Fascinating!.. (Chuck Lynd) ok, how about dan next (Chuck Lynd) ga dan (Dan Lake) I have just about finished a project for... (Dan Lake) AT&T that paid 11 content area teachers to... (Dan Lake) write 9 weeks (each) of lesson plans... (Dan Lake) that incorporate telecom activity... (Dan Lake) and measure estimated transactions... (Dan Lake) Some of the lessons look fantastic... (Dan Lake) and AT&T just announced additions to... (Dan Lake) their E-Mail system: BBS' and international... (Dan Lake) connections! ga (Chuck Lynd) again, fascinating potential there. (Fred) I love it Dan!... (Fred) We also just finished a study... (Fred) ours was a cooperative study with Columbia U... (Fred) to identify models for on-line classrom research... (Fred) I would be happy to share the results with you... (Fred) and any other interested party... (Fred) how about sharing some of those lesson plans, we... (Fred) would love to look at them. ga (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga dan (Dan Lake) I would love to see your stuff, Fred. Unfortunately... (Dan Lake) AT&T owns the lesson plan material by contract... (Dan Lake) and you will have to wait until they release it... (Dan Lake) darn, but part of deal. ga (Chuck Lynd) fred....could you tell us a little bit now... about the results of your online research study? (Fred) We selected 10 high schools (Fred) and 2 junior highs to be in the study... (Fred) we gatewayed to Einstein... (Fred) gave each school 100 disposable passwords... (Fred) computer coords. and teachers... (Fred) planned their research projects on-line... (Fred) students conducted searches, then entered... (Fred) private sigs to discuss results... (Fred) over all we concluded that general subject area projects ... (Fred) were more successful than very specific... (Fred) projects (in the natural sciences),... (Fred) we also learned that the greatest potential... (Fred) for on-line research did not lay in the smount of data... (Fred) a student could retreive... (Fred) the greatest value came to those teachers who... (Fred) concentrated on pre-search skills... (Fred) their students demonstrated improvements in ... (Fred) the areas of critical thinking... (Fred) therefore, the acquisition of data... (Fred) must take a back seat to all the preliminary classroom... (Fred) work a teacher should go through. ga (Chuck Lynd) hmmm...did they use the einstein materials for pre-search training? ga (Fred) yes, representatives from Addison Wesley... (Fred) came to NY and conducted 2 workshops for our teachers... (Fred) attendance at the workshops was not as high as I ... (Fred) had hoped (Dan, the same old problem of not enough time)... (Fred) but those teachers who did attend felt AW did a good job. ga (Chuck Lynd) thanks; dave, did u want to comment? ga (Dave Winslow) yes (Dave Winslow) backing up a sec... (Dave Winslow) some of what Anne suggests is happening.... (Dave Winslow) on STUFO--national "school day" conferences.... (Dave Winslow) Dan set one up last Spring from Mexico HS.... (Dave Winslow) All schools invited to participate... (Dave Winslow) Am searching for experts in all areas... (Dave Winslow) Any suggestions for guest experts? ga (Chuck Lynd) ga fred (Fred) You might ask the folks at Learning Link.. (Anneliese Sessa) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga anne (Anneliese Sessa) what are you looking for? Can our volunteer hobbyists help? (Chuck Lynd) want to comment dave, want to clarify areas of expertise? ga (Dave Winslow) yes.. (Dave Winslow) I am looking for experts in any area that will enrich the curriculum... (Dave Winslow) hopefully an expert will visit a local school and then connect.. (Dave Winslow) with the others through a conference. ga (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga dan (Fred) ! (Dan Lake) How about a computer coordinator from the North Slope Borough in Barrow, Alaska? ga (Chuck Lynd) ok...fred, ga (Fred) Dave, have you tried setting up... (Fred) a mentor program with local or state universities... (Fred) we have 3 universities mentoring students... (Fred) in Westinghouse science classes... (Fred) the mentors had trouble coming to the school... (Fred) Tritech, the name of the project,... (Fred) invited them to continue on-line using our BBS... (Fred) we will begin on-line mentoring this year.ga (Dave Winslow) ? (Chuck Lynd) ga dave (Dave Winslow) Fred, could you provide some background info... (Dave Winslow) on how you got the whole thing started... (Dave Winslow) sounds great but i don't have a clue as to where to start.ga (Chuck Lynd) ga fred (Fred) Dave, a good place to begin... (Fred) is with the education dept of a university or college... (Fred) generally speaking the chairperson of the dept... (Fred) will direct you to the subject specialist... (Fred) or even coordinate the project at the same time... (Fred) while you are there, investigate the possibility... (Fred) of running university credit courses for your teachers... (Fred) in your schools. Good things often come... (Fred) in packages! ga (Dan Lake) ! (Chuck Lynd) ga dan (Dan Lake) Dave, how about a couple of VietNam war vets? ga (Chuck Lynd) interesting idea! (Chuck Lynd) well, folks, those who wish to stay can... but I want to thank our guest and all of you... for an enjoyable discussion... lots of good ideas and perspectives were presented here tonight! -- Patt Haring UUCP: ..cmcl2!phri!dasys1!patth Big Electric Cat Compu$erve: 76566,2510 New York, NY, USA MCI Mail: 306-1255; GEnie: PHaring (212) 879-9031 FidoNet Mail: 1:107/701 or 107/222