patth@dasys1.UUCP (Patt Haring) (12/27/87)
Public Forum * NonProfit Connection
on GEnie
====================================================================
Minutes of a realtime conversation with
Griff Wigley and Lynne Schrum
Teachers Get Wired: Educators Online
(December 20, 1987)
These minutes may be ported to other systems online and reproduced in
free publications if copyright credit is given to GEnie and the Public Forum *
NonProfit Connection. No other reproduction without written permission.
Attendees:
[[Bill]W.JOEL]
[[Griff] PRESS32]
[[Howard] H.L.HANSEN]
[[JERRY]J.E.FOSS]
[[Jim] JBELTRAMO]
[[lynne] PRESS33]
[[Matt] MATT.COOLEY]
[[NILES] N.DUNNELLS]
[[Scott]]DIANE..SCOTT]
[[Tom] SHERMAN]
[D.A.BRUMLEVE]
[D.NASH1]
[D.STARKS]
[EXPONENTS]
[J.FARKAS]
[J.MATT]
[J.SMAYDA]
[KIMS]
[MEL.THORNTON]
[NORMLEV]
[Paul] NPC.ARCHIVES]
[R.A.P.]
[S.C.WILLIAMS]
[W.SINCLAIR]
<[Griff] PRESS32> let's take some questions, okie dokie?..ga
<EXPONENTS> ??
<NORMLEV> ??
<[Tom] SHERMAN> If you're a teacher, how about hitting a RETURN
<NORMLEV>
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN>
<MEL.THORNTON>
<[Jim] JBELTRAMO> I am not a teacher..but I'm working with the local college
to set up a BBS.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Norm, Howard and Mel are all part of the special Nebraska
Math program group which meets in this RoundTable. . . .
<[Tom] SHERMAN> OK, first question: Exponents (then I'll call on Howard,
then Norm)
<[Tom] SHERMAN> GA
<EXPONENTS> During last 20 yrs or so, many aspects of our lives (including
education)...
<EXPONENTS> have changed due to (tele)comminications, anyone like to
speculate on...
<EXPONENTS> what we can expect in 2000AD?? GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Lynne? GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> Well, I am convinced that every student will have an
expanded view of the world and hope that the differences between people..
will be appreciated and accepted... GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Griff? GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> I agree. Global education will become a reality in many
classrooms...
<[Griff] PRESS32> It becomes so much easier to integrate global issues...
<D.STARKS> has left.
<[Griff] PRESS32> into various parts of the curriculum with easy access to
telecom...
<[Griff] PRESS32> but also, change will happen faster because.. I would also
like to add, that integration into the curriculum is vital to building on what
has begun
<[Griff] PRESS32> telecom can put innovative educators in touch with
eacother
<KIMS> ??
<[Griff] PRESS32> providing support, colleagueality, inspiration, etc... ga
<J.MATT> has left.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Exponents, follow up question/comment?
<EXPONENTS> Later, please? Can I also put in plug for Childrens TV Workshop
BBS? :)
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Exponents, we have a note in the library here about that
BBS. OK, Howard, GA!
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> In what ways can we further the integration of
telecom into the classroom?...
<[lynne] PRESS33> One of the things that I see as necessary, will be the
expansion of telecom beyond penpals
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> I know that with the Math Scholars Program we are
trying to create a network...
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> here in Nebraska and on GEnie, but sometimes it
seems access to the tech is to. limited (You know my school has 1 phone line
etc.) and the costs are ^
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> Tom...
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Lynne? GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> I think this is where the administrators must be.. shown
what can be accomplished.. right now too many teachers are excited about
the uses of tele.. but the uphill battles and budgets are too difficult. GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Griff?
<[Griff] PRESS32> In Minnesota the state has provided unlimited access to
MIX via 800...numbers. We are negotiating with Nebraska now. I don't see
telecom..becoming a big hit until the variable rates go away...
<[Jim] JBELTRAMO> ??
<[Griff] PRESS32> without state support, it will just be an interesting thing to
do...for a fewfew innovative, cutting edge folks. ga
<N.DUNNELLS> is here.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Howard, follow-up? GA
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> So do you have suggestions on how we can help this
idea to expand? GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Lynne? GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> Yes, I do...
<[lynne] PRESS33> First, teachers and administraotors have to be willing to
try a few new things. demonstration projects, etc. Also..if we can have a
few empirical studies that ...
<D.A.BRUMLEVE> is here.
<[lynne] PRESS33> actually show improvements in some basics it might show
that this is not just a glitzy fun thing(altho it is fun) GA
<D.A.BRUMLEVE> Hi.
<[Griff] PRESS32> Howard, I'd say use your professional groups to lobby your
state...
<[Griff] PRESS32> departments and education oriented legislators....
<S.C.WILLIAMS> Field trips to offices who use tele for purposes they can
identify with
<[Griff] PRESS32> while spreading the word at the grass roots level. like
you're doing now. anybody else have ideas? ga
<S.C.WILLIAMS> That is -- field trips for administrators and teachers
<NORMLEV>
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Norm, thanks for waiting GA (KIMS next)
<MEL.THORNTON> ??
<NORMLEV> First, a statement, then questions? I have Tracy a French 5
student communicating with France and Quebec, writing letters to about 6
people.. in order to improve and practice your writing skills in French, and
to learn.. about culture directly, first hand. I hope to expand this for many
students.. in my French 4 class next year. Now the questions, where can I
get.. research, grants, funds, ideas, other people interested in this
project???..the access is unfortunately not on GE but on CIS (sorry). GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> I have the names of people who are interested in .
communications with students in french classes. as for money.If you find
someone willing to fund a project, let me know!GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> I don't know about grants, norm, but your ideas should not
require.. special monies...
<[Griff] PRESS32> hopefully, in a year or two, you will have ready access to
students...
around the world for under $200 per year. sound possible? GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> I think if the teachers who are using telecom can find
ways to stay.. in touch to match up projects and so on, to provide
support..that will be a big start.GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Norm, follow-up? GA
<NORMLEV> Merci bien for the ideas. First, Lynne, how do I get the names
that you. have? Secondly, local (RI) funds have not reached the high levels
of tech...
<NORMLEV> as yet! I'm willing to meet and talk with people to share these
ideas!ga
<[lynne] PRESS33> Norm,/...
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Lynne if you send info to me, I will be glad to post it here.
<[lynne] PRESS33> I will Great, tom, ...
<[lynne] PRESS33> But for the specific french info, i could send it to Norm GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> I'd like us to spend a little time, at the end of our
discussion . . .
<[Tom] SHERMAN> talking about some of the practical ways in which the
Public Forum *NPC can be helpful . . .
<[Tom] SHERMAN> in this area. For the moment, KIMS, GA!
<KIMS> Thanks Tom (a commercial?)....
<KIMS> ok, i seem to detect a gap between..the educatiors interested in using
telecomm and the actual means of doing so. there are many educators out
there just now beginning to realize the potential. and the means to fulfuill
these possiblities exist.. yet the educators dont have the technical knowledge
to fully utilize the medium.is someone, somewhere disseminating this
information to them?...how do things work bwtween the grass roots level
and implementation? ga
<[lynne] PRESS33> I would like to answer this..The grass roots is the best
place to start..but it cant stop. We have lots of experience with people .who
see a presentation adn then they go out and .really push for the means to
implement this they sell cupcakess, etc. GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> well, i don't want to toot our horn here too loudly but...
many of the over 30 student telecom activities on MIX don't..require
teachers to have an account. they can participate via the computer
coordinator or media person's account..> it's a nice way to expose them to the
power of telecom without.. the technical hurdles and costs. Plus, it's not for
everybody. GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Griff, just in case there are some people who haven't read
the BB note about MIX, why not say a few words about it? GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> It's an education only network... nationwide and
increasingly world wide...We have student telecom projects, education tech
forums.. professional development forums and state and nat'l
association.information boards. Primarily, we're a community, not an..
information warehouse/online database. enough, tom? ga
<[Tom] SHERMAN> KIMS, follow-up to your question? GA.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Thanks, Griff
<KIMS> thanks....I see what a great opportunity this is for educators and
students alike..
<KIMS> BUT, I think what I'm focusing on is the physcial / technical end of
telecomm... for example.. a teacher says to admin..."look, there's this great
service available, we can USE this".. and admin says yes, we can see how this
might be valuable, but.what costs does it entail above and beyond the
service itself and what do we need (equipment wise) to implement it....
<KIMS> I think it was Howard? that expressed the probglem with one phone
line...
<KIMS> do you see the gap that I'm talking about....the technical knowledge
required to utilize the service....who fills that gap? ga
<[lynne] PRESS33> Tom
<NORMLEV> ??
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Sure I'll fill that gap
<KIMS> hahahahaha
<[Tom] SHERMAN> grin
<KIMS> (so will *I* tom)
<[lynne] PRESS33> Well, there does have to be training.and it often can be the
most difficult to tackle.but, if there is a local person.who can answer
questions, and hold some hands, plus, some of us..have flet there should be a
weekend telecom workshop available in various states..that teachers could
attend for credit. GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> one phone line in a bldg is all you need! only don't call it
a...phone line. you don't need the phone, only the line. call... it an information
port, kim. And you really need only one.."technical oriented teacher in a
building, not every teacher.We've found having the costs for all telecom.be
covered by one P.O. makes it alot more palatable for admin.
<MEL.THORNTON> I WAS n't expecting that question, but I would like to
make a comment about the problems os getting teachers...
<[Griff] PRESS32> so we sell MIX for $150 per yr along with $50 blocks of
Tymnet. GA
<MEL.THORNTON> to use telecomm. In our last two years of trying to get 63
Nebr math teachers to use telecomm we have run into two main problems,
which I believe to be local..and not problems on the state level. First is the
fact that less thn half of our teachers have their own computer and modem
at home, so they have to use the schools equipemnt. This means effectively
that they have to use it during prime time for GEnie which of course costs a
lot. The second, perhaps more serious problem with time is that many of our
teachers have 5 to 7 preps every day. There just isn't that much time or
energy to try something new.
<MEL.THORNTON> I think that is a real problem. Teachers like Howard are
quite unusual and dedicated. A perfect soulution would be to get the schools
to provide an hour, during school days for using telecom and not teaching
that extra course. Now that is dreaming! GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> Could i get a job in that school Mel? GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> Here's some principles for telecom participation.. not
original with me, BTW...
<[Griff] PRESS32> * there is a task to be accomplished...
<[Griff] PRESS32> * it is more effective that other means (newsletters, phone,
FTF)...
<[Griff] PRESS32> * Participants get to know each other...
<[Griff] PRESS32> * Participants are committed...
<[Griff] PRESS32> * Participants are accountable...
<[Griff] PRESS32> but mel is right... we need more things like "front end"
software...to make participation easier/cheaper so that telecom is. more
transparent to the average user. I'd say that day is..about a year or two
away.
<NORMLEV> Merci. First, to Lynne, NORMLEV on Genie Mail, or 72750,1714
on COMPUSERVE...
<KIMS> ??
<NORMLEV> or via US Mail at N.K. High School, 150 Fairway, N. Kingstown, RI
02852....
<NORMLEV> Next to Griff, An address for MIX for information. And any
Foreign language.materials. Third, the teacher must learn how to use
software and equipment.. to convince administrators that the money will be
well spent!ga
<[Tom] SHERMAN> ??
<[lynne] PRESS33> In California, we spent a great deal of time and money
training .. teachers in all sorts of technology including telecom.. and it has
been very successful. GA
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Griff?
<[Griff] PRESS32> Norm, call 800 622-6310 for more info or write..to MIX,
EMS/McGraw-Hill, 9855 West 78th Street.. Eden Prairie, MN 55344...
<[Griff] PRESS32> and yes, all innovations like telecom need a "champion"
to.prove to administrators that it's worth while... it can be..a catch 22
situation, true. Ga
<[Tom] SHERMAN> KIMS, GA?
<EXPONENTS> With regret, must depart, thanks to Tom,Lynne,Griff & others
for interesting..discussion.
<EXPONENTS> has left.
<KIMS> I think lynne may have answered my question.which was basically,.
do you go in and sell the ENTIRE package to the schools? ga
<[Griff] PRESS32> Ok, we market both to districts, state depts, and now to
individ via ads in classroom computer learning magazine. Is that what you
wanted kim? ga
<[Tom] SHERMAN> KIMS?
<KIMS> yes and no...i understand that u sell the service itself. i guess i have a
different perspective working in telecomm itself.and seeing how bewildering
the field is to laypeople...
<KIMS> you and i both know how simple it is. but THEY dont....so im
asking...do u have peole on staff...who say... ok u have the computer...this is
the modem u need...this is how u get a phone line...etc...
<[Griff] PRESS32> I think we're primarily selling to the VERY interested, not.
to those who've not really heard...
<KIMS> (another point)
<[Griff] PRESS32> much about telecom. GA
<KIMS> ok...thats the point im trying to make...u keep saying this needs to
start at grass roots level...but.. u sell to the very interested...the information
SHOULD be getting out to all educators.. so that they can see and explore the
possibilites...but as has been mentioned...
<KIMS> there is a phobia existant of technology....unless a degree of hand
holding exists...and is OFFERRED it will not be accepted....WHO is doing th
is? ga
<J.SMAYDA> is here.
<[Griff] PRESS32> Kim, We have a simulation disk now, and we are working
on a videotape.which should help get a "taste" of telecom to those not on..the
up and up. But nothing beats word of mouth. ga
<[lynne] PRESS33> Well, I , as a class room teacher, who has watched others
eyes glase..
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Howard, you had a comment? GA
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> I will toot the Nebraska Math Scholars horn a bit and
say that is what we try..to do (the hand holding) We have started with 63
math teachers who are spreading the word at their schools and to others
through the ESU.We do five weeks of intensive work with computers math
and telecom. so teachers know what to do...
<J.SMAYDA> ??
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> Despite the problems it's working here at the
grassroots. GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> Howard, if we get the NCTM and Nebraska contracts, i'm.
going to come looking for you to be THEE telecom champion. <grin> ga
<KIMS> (hahaha)
<[Tom] SHERMAN> J. Smayda, go ahead!
<J.SMAYDA> Thank you. I have a collegue who is interested in purchasing a
computer for his art department. amy suggentions?
<[Tom] SHERMAN> This is a little outside our discussion, but a quick answer
from anyone. GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> The grass roots and intensive training, Have you seen the
Amiga?
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> Yes, definitely an Amiga 500!!
<J.SMAYDA> Yes he mentioned that.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> J.SMAYDA -- my sense is that the art teacher should first
consider the use of the computer in the classroom. Most computers are
equally good at telecommunication.
<J.SMAYDA> I have a MAC but of course it doesn't support color.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> I've got a question for our guests . . .
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Are there any people/organizations now collecting and
disseminating good evidence about the value of telecomm in education? And,
if so, where do we find them? GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> I know of one really good study.. but it is qualitative and
not quantitative. However..I plan to do my dissertation. Can you wait about 3
years?
<[Tom] SHERMAN> <GRIN>
<KIMS> hahaha
<KIMS> ok....since this IS the NON-PROFIT roundtable..where do i sign up?
<[lynne] PRESS33> any time, Kims, really...
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Griff, anything else on evidence?
<[Griff] PRESS32> Margaret Riel UC San Diego has done the most research as
far. as the use of telecom to enhance writing. and it's quantitative. ga
<[lynne] PRESS33> and I will be collecting my data on line
<KIMS> i suggest a network of "in-bwetween" people
<D.NASH1> is here.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> I'd like to ask one follow-up question, then let everyone
talk without protocols . First, a short observation .There's pretty good
evidence that people don't really use this technology without . a reason, a
goal that they're trying to accomplish . . .
<[Tom] SHERMAN> So my question is, what's happening now in education,
apart from telecomm, that will make telecomm an effective tool to achieve
education's goals? GA
<[lynne] PRESS33> Literature based language arts. lends itself perfectly to
telecom.and it is being very successful out here in CA.
<J.SMAYDA> I'm involved with music. I would think that MIDI would be a
good way to use telecom ideas...
<[Griff] PRESS32> big picture stuff?...
<J.SMAYDA> People could exchange songs over the modem.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Sure, Griff!
<[Griff] PRESS32> real reform, not just "school improvement...School site
management... where the teachers are more responsible..<[Griff] PRESS32>
and accountable to provide learning experiences that mean more...to kids.
TEachers must be empowered to really use telecom. ga
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> Sorry, I must leave. Thanks all for a very enjoyable
evening.
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Our guests have already put in more time than I asked
them for, so I want to thank them both formally (and any other way) for
sharingtheir expertise and enthusiasm . . .
<[lynne] PRESS33> I thought this was wonderful, thnaks for having me, but
where are the doughnuts, tom>
<[Tom] SHERMAN> If they can stick around to chat informally, that would be
great. We really appreciate everyone's participation. Enjoy the holidays. . .
See you soon GA
<[Howard] H.L.HANSEN> One last plug--Math Online Tutoring Thursdays 8 pm
CT NPC Room 3.
<KIMS> can i watch howard?
<[Tom] SHERMAN> Phooey, I promised Lynne chocolate covered doughnuts
and all they had were these pink frosted things.
<[lynne] PRESS33> You owe me one, tom, i never forget the promise of
chocolate
<[lynne] PRESS33> I would like to discuss the language framework sometime,
it would be interesting...
<[lynne] PRESS33> to see what you mean.GA
<[Griff] PRESS32> hey this was a good time, tom..
<KIMS> id be interested as well lynne...my mother runs the language arts /
learning disabililty program in her schooldistrict....
<KIMS> and is just starting to get interested in computers...id like to be able
to show her WHAT she can do with it
<[lynne] PRESS33> Wow, special ed is my field, and i go on for ever with
that..where do you livGA
<KIMS> im in chicago..but my mother is in michigan...a rural shchool district
ga
<[lynne] PRESS33> Well, I would love to discuss it. Tom, maybe you could
arrange, smile GA
<KIMS> tom...obviously u should have this topic more often *grin*
<[lynne] PRESS33> and one on special education, please GA
<KIMS> i think its time to seell lynne an acct tom *grin*
<[Tom] SHERMAN> We'd be glad too. Maybe if I get chocolate doughnuts,
Lynne will come again. I don't know what to offer Griff, though.
--
Patt Haring UUCP: ..cmcl2!phri!dasys1!patth
Big Electric Cat Compu$erve: 76566,2510
New York, NY, USA MCI Mail: Patt Haring; GEnie-PHaring
(212) 879-9031 FidoNet Mail: 1:107/701 or 107/222