cmerritt@megatest.UUCP (Cristopher Merritt) (03/01/88)
I would like to combine my desires to return to school and to travel by attending a university abroad (with respect to the United States). I would be pursuing a master's degree in computer science, supposedly in Europe though I'm open to suggestion. This raises some questions which I put to you nice net-folk: - Can you recomend any foreign universities strong in computer science? How about the 5 or 10 "best" European computer science dept's? - How should I approach the language issue? I speak only English fluently (unfortunatly no French or German - high school Spanish) but am certainly not afraid of a new language; culture-shock is the whole idea here! Must I consider only English speaking universities or can I find multi- lingual schools in countries where the primarly language is not English? Would such a multi-lingual school have English lectures or references? - Have any of you done what I am proposing? What can I learn from your experience? - There are jillions of guides to American universities such as Barrons, etc.. Do know of similar references to foreign schools? Other sources? - Are there considerations or criteria which I have overlooked? Thanks for your potential help. Cristopher Merritt MegaTest Corp. UUCP: ucbvax!sun!megatest!cmerritt 880 Fox Lane ARPA: megatest!cmerritt@riacs.ARPA San Jose, CA 95131 (408) 437-9700 x3020
kuechlin@mostaccioli.cis.ohio-state.edu (Wolfgang W. Kuechlin) (03/02/88)
In article <296@sirius.megatest.UUCP> cmerritt@megatest.UUCP (Cristopher Merritt) writes: ... >- Can you recomend any foreign universities strong in computer science? > How about the 5 or 10 "best" European computer science dept's? I would look at University of Edinburgh, Scotland. Technical University of Munich, W-Germany. University of Karlsruhe, W-Germany. Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, Switzerland. This list is by no means exhaustive. ... >- There are jillions of guides to American universities such as Barrons, > etc.. Do know of similar references to foreign schools? Other sources? Try the culture departments of the consulates of, e.g., Switzerland, The Netherlands, W-Germany, Britain, Italy, and France. Computer Science will be called something like informatique/Informatik/informattica. And, yes, you will have to learn the language (incl. English English ;-). Caveat: there is no fooling around at European Universities. You are supposed to have a solid general education from high school, like strong math, other sciences, and reading and writing skills. Else you fail. Period. -=- Wolfgang W. KUECHLIN <Kuechlin@tut.cis.ohio-state.EDU>
tjhorton@ai.toronto.edu ("Timothy J. Horton") (03/02/88)
cmerritt@megatest.UUCP (Cristopher Merritt) writes: >I would like to combine my desires to return to school and to travel >by attending a university abroad (with respect to the United States). >I would be pursuing a master's degree in computer science, supposedly >in Europe though I'm open to suggestion. ... >Are there considerations or criteria which I have overlooked? I'm inclined to qualify this as an exception rather than the rule, but here's one man's opinion: A friend of mine with a PhD in Computer Science did research for a company in Germany for a few months and decided he had to get the heck out. It seems that the European attitude to research was somewhat different than the North American attitude, at least as Computer Science was concerned. He felt that the graduates of European schools, with some exceptions, hadn't been taught to do research: especially that they hadn't had to go it alone without being told what to do (direct themselves, I think he put it). He also observed, at least where he was, that companies preferred North American PhD's over European PhD's. This may only apply to the area of graphics, since that was his area, but he made no such qualification. The moral may be that you should check the modus operandi at the school of your choice. When I looked at a couple of schools, I noticed that the research requirements were "different" at a number of them. One graduate research "system" that I know of is downright medieval. The applications are thrown into a pile, and the professors pick out "their" students as they choose. Each professor is responsible for supporting "his" students, and so the system decends into something of an apprenticeship program (depending on the professors level of enlightenment), where students do the professors bidding much of their time. I've seen this system in some of the social sciences departments right here at U of Toronto, and I don't think it can be all that rare, especially where money is tight. When there's lots of cash, it's easier to convince the profs to throw some into a pool from which to help support the students that don't get scholarships. While I'm at it, I might suggest Toronto. It's foreign, with respect to the US, and draws a number of American students (good ones, I might add). It doesn't suffer from the problems mentioned above at all. There's a lot more scholarship money (for Canadians) from the federal government and Computer Science and Electrical Engineering are targetted areas, so the support level is fairly high. Since it doesn't cater to defence programs (where lots of money comes from in the states), the flavor is much more theoretical than at many American schools. Give it a look.
kuechlin@mostaccioli.cis.ohio-state.edu (Wolfgang W. Kuechlin) (03/04/88)
In article <1988Mar2.115526.29923@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> tjhorton@ai.toronto.edu ("Timothy J. Horton") writes: [about the German system, I believe] ... >One graduate research "system" that I know of is downright medieval. ... > ... and so the system decends into something of an apprenticeship >program (depending on the professors level of enlightenment), where students >do the professors bidding much of their time. ... For the top European schools, "medieval" means a 500 year tradition of top-notch excellence. A close apprenticeship relation to a mentor on the full professor level can influence you for life. Furthermore, there is no or little tuition and you draw a full salary as "assistant". However, you are very much dependent on your mentor. If he's not good, you're in trouble; but he will have tenure and won't disappear. I can't recommend going over for your PH.D., except if you know the Professor. Besides, nobody might take you without knowing you from your undergrad. work at the same school. I received my Diplom and my doctorate from European schools. In my opinion, the European system is better up to Diplom (MS) level, and the US graduate schools are better in general; but none of the European Universities is as low level as you can get in the US. Industry might prefer the U.S. type "get it done" person to the European style "thinker". They might also just prefer people with the additional overseas experience. It's not the bad Ph.D.'s who go overseas to seek employment. And, yes, Toronto should offer an attractive combination. -=- Wolfgang W. KUECHLIN <Kuechlin@tut.cis.ohio-state.EDU>
jezebel@ut-emx.UUCP (Jim Rulla) (03/04/88)
Could anyone out there post a list of GOOD European & Australian universities for sciences and Engineering ? Thanks, Jim Rulla