jl@a.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Juan Leon) (12/15/88)
> *Excerpts from ext.nn.comp.edu: 12-Dec-88 Re: Student and Course Inte.. Kathy* > *Pividal@vax1.acs.u (1247)* > In article <842@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: > Many of the foreign students (graduate) are not only benefitting > from the American educational system Also, the "American educational system" (whatever that is) is benefitting from the foreign students, who are harming the educational system in their home countries.> > but are being supported (tuition > and stipend) by American federal agencies (NSF, DoD, DoE, NIH, etc.). Not true. Foreign students do not get fellowships or any direct money from any agency remotely associated with the U.S. government. They may be benefitting from funds given to a whole department, but the department (and the US) is getting something in return.> > Because of the new tax law, I (an American Graduate student) have to pay > the US goverment taxes on my stipend, however the foreign students on > student visas pay no taxes to the US government even though their source > and amount of funding is identical to mine. Foreign students pay taxes too. Not only that, but they don't get the zero-tax bracket, which implies they end up paying more taxes than American students. To that, add the fact that foreign students can get no money from federal agencies, and are very restricted in their choice of jobs. They also cannot get most of the benefits derived from paying taxes. Again, their funding is not the same as yours.> > Explain why this is not financial > discrimination against American students. Explain why this is not financial discrimination against foreign students. Juan Leon jl@cs.cmu.edu Computer Science Department leon+@andrew.bitnet Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, Pa. --
matloff@bizet.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff) (12/15/88)
In article <3873@pt.cs.cmu.edu> jl@a.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Juan Leon) writes: >Also, the "American educational system" (whatever that is) is >benefitting from the foreign students, who are harming the >educational system in their home countries.> This is quite true, in both respects. In many fields, American universities rely VERY heavily on foreign students. In our department, which I think is typical, without foreign students many of our courses would not have TA's, and many of our research projects would not have RA's. Moreover, we wouldn't have a significant fraction of our faculty either, since many of them came to the U.S. originally as foreign students. >> but are being supported (tuition >> and stipend) by American federal agencies (NSF, DoD, DoE, NIH, etc.). >Not true. Foreign students do not get fellowships or any >direct money from any agency remotely associated with the >U.S. government. They may be benefitting from funds given >to a whole department, but the department (and the US) is >getting something in return.> You are splitting hairs here, Juan. Lots of foreign students are supported as RA's, which provide them with salary and in many cases tuition. Most of the rest get other forms of support, e.g. TA's. [Of course, I am referring to graduate students in both cases, but since the majority of foreign students seem are graduate (I believe this is true), this is relevant.] >Foreign students pay taxes too. Not only that, but they don't As someone else mentioned, some foreign students come from countries which have special agreements with the U.S., which either eliminate or greatly reduce the tax these foreign students pay. [Note, though, that they all pay sales tax.] >They also cannot get most of >the benefits derived from paying taxes. Not true. For example, in Davis, there are a number of spouses of foreign students who are enrolled in the English classes sponsored by the city government, and many have kids in Davis city schools. I don't recall the other government services they are getting, but there are quite a few. And of course even if they pay full university tuition, it doesn't cover the full per-student cost of running the university. >Explain why this is not financial discrimination against foreign >students. It IS discrimination against foreign students. The question is whether this discrimination is JUSTIFIED, in public universities, and even in private universities if the school gets a lot of federal funds. Norm