jeff@aipna.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton) (12/25/88)
In article <18107@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60a-2di@e260-4b.berkeley.edu (The Cybermat Rider) writes: >In Singapore, [...] (It has been said that engineering students had better >aim for AT LEAST A MASTER'S DEGREE in order to be assured of a good job I wonder if this is true in the UK. I seem to know a lot of people who don't think there's much point in getting a master's or PhD except to satisfy some personal interest in the subject. >But it's not true in the British system. Demonstrated proofs are used as >EXAMPLES of general problem-solving techniques, and a student can be at >least 95% sure that the problems presented will NOT appear in the exams in >any immediately recognizable form. In my experience, that is not quite true. In the US (where I was educated), I could be pretty sure that demonstrated proofs would not appear as exam questions; and here I have seen exam questions that were based very strongly on assigned exercises. I have also seen UK students asking what things would be on the exam, etc. >We do it on a larger scale - students are provided at the outset with a >DETAILED SYLLABUS (common to all institutions within the British >Commonwealth), so we are able to do a LOT of self-study, the better ones >even MOVING BEYOND the guidelines provided. Is this true at University level? I have not seen anything like it. I'm not trying to attack the "British system", which does have advantages over what happens in the US, just to question some generalizations that seem, to me, somewhat inaccurate.
c60a-2di@e260-2d.berkeley.edu (The Cybermat Rider) (12/29/88)
In article <424@aipna.ed.ac.uk> jeff@uk.ac.ed.aipna.UUCP (Jeff Dalton) writes: >In article <18107@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60a-2di@e260-4b.berkeley.edu (The Cybermat Rider) writes: >>In Singapore, [...] (It has been said that engineering students had better >>aim for AT LEAST A MASTER'S DEGREE in order to be assured of a good job > >I wonder if this is true in the UK. I seem to know a lot of people >who don't think there's much point in getting a master's or PhD except >to satisfy some personal interest in the subject. Perhaps, but in Singapore, the job market is VERY COMPETITIVE, and (alas) paper qualifications are commonly used as a major criteria in selecting job applicants. >>But it's not true in the British system. Demonstrated proofs are used as >>EXAMPLES of general problem-solving techniques, and a student can be at >>least 95% sure that the problems presented will NOT appear in the exams in >>any immediately recognizable form. > >In my experience, that is not quite true. In the US (where I was >educated), I could be pretty sure that demonstrated proofs would >not appear as exam questions; and here I have seen exam questions >that were based very strongly on assigned exercises. I have also >seen UK students asking what things would be on the exam, etc. As do some Singapore students, but the answer they get from their teachers is usually "EVERYTHING", which is just about as good an answer for their purposes as none at all. >>We do it on a larger scale - students are provided at the outset with a >>DETAILED SYLLABUS (common to all institutions within the British >>Commonwealth), so we are able to do a LOT of self-study, the better ones >>even MOVING BEYOND the guidelines provided. > >Is this true at University level? I have not seen anything like it. Whoops! I should have been more specific - only in secondary school and junior colleges (roughly corresponding to 7th-12th grades). Universities under both systems seem to be remarkably similar (although I might be wrong on this point). >I'm not trying to attack the "British system", which does have advantages >over what happens in the US, just to question some generalizations that >seem, to me, somewhat inaccurate. And well you should, for they are too general and thus rather inaccurate. I should have mentioned that the British educational system (as outlined in my previous posting) is really used as a set of *guidelines* in most Commonwealth countries. Of course, there are some disadvantages of the British system with respect to the American one (can't think of specific examples though - haven't been sleeping well - but they *must* exist, else we wouldn't keep coming). I guess it's the responsibility of the individual educational institutions around the world to assess the deficiencies of their respective systems and modify according to their circumstances. As an aside, I was half afraid that my previous posting might trigger off a barrage of verbal violence, not unlike what happened recently in sci.space.shuttle - thankfully, this has not been the case. However, I personally feel that the time has come to move this discussion out of sci.physics to a more suitable group. Wish I could find one though - not many *.edu groups around, and all of them seem to deal with computer education. Does anyone have any suggestions? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adrian Ho a.k.a. The Cybermat Rider University of California, Berkeley c60a-2di@web.berkeley.edu Disclaimer: Nobody takes me seriously, so is it really necessary?