duncan@geppetto.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) (01/06/89)
In article <15655@joyce.istc.sri.com> gds@spam.istc.sri.com (Greg Skinner) writes: > >Keep in mind that it is the most prestigious colleges and companies >that can discriminate on the basis of grades or whatever, because they >get so many applicants. I've checked into a number of small colleges >that have entrance requirements even I can fulfill. :-) Seriously, >though, these places have faculty that got their degrees at the same >schools where the faculty at the prestigious schools got their >degrees. The difference seems to lie in the amount of money the >prestigious schools get for research, and the nature of the research >done. I think this is agood point for folks looking at colleges to keep in mind. On the other hand, many companies do recruit selectively and will not pay much attention to smaller schools. For example, in a former job, they had this image of themselves that did not involve recruiting from the local community college. A few managers broke that 'taboo' and got some very good workers as a result. (The same would be true, I'm sure, for small 4-year schools as well. I just know the example for community college.) >Perhaps the trouble we are seeing with the education system now is due >to the fact that people are seeking to be "qualified" rather than >"educated". This is a nice point...can you continue with your opinions on this. I think it also addresses a posting in soc.college about what the "real" world means to people (which is why I'm cross-posting to there). Speaking only for myself, of course, I am... Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan) (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ 08854) (201-699-3910 (w) 201-463-3683 (h))
gds@spam.istc.sri.com (Greg Skinner) (01/18/89)
In article <13225@bellcore.bellcore.com> duncan@ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) writes: >I wrote: >>Perhaps the trouble we are seeing with the education system now is due >>to the fact that people are seeking to be "qualified" rather than >>"educated". > >This is a nice point...can you continue with your opinions on this. I think >it also addresses a posting in soc.college about what the "real" world means >to people (which is why I'm cross-posting to there). When I was an undergraduate, I recall asking several of my friends what they were majoring in and why. Many of them said they wanted to be engineers because of all the money they would make. Few talked about the love (or liking) they had for engineering or science. They viewed their education as a means to an end, as opposed to a worthwhile experience in itself. I'll admit I wanted to be an engineer because of the money I'd make, but I have since realized that I like engineering for its own sake. I am not sure where this attitude comes from or what has encouraged it. I suppose it has something to do with the "popularity" of various fields such as medicine, law, or engineering. Because people can make lots of money in these fields, people try to become qualified in these fields. Some schools cater to these people and manufacture them for industry. There isn't as much incentive for people to teach or do creative research work, because it does not pay very well. Within industry, quickie solutions that will make lots of money are favored over longer term solutions that will pay off (in terms of the service they provide to others, as well as financially) in the long run. If the values of society were not so dominated by money or fame, perhaps we would have stronger education because people would feel education was virtuous. Unfortunately the images we are given (teen idol, athlete, actor/actress) do not convey messages to us that we should be more educated as a society. They do convey to us that we should make more money, though, so certain professions such as law or engineering are seen as ways to meet a goal, as opposed to worthwhile endeavors in themselves. --gregbo
vin@meccsd.MECC.MN.ORG (Vincent J. Erickson) (01/19/89)
The present state of education in the US is of great concern to us all. I found both secondary and post-secondary education to be rife with shallow, meaningless trivia. True, we do learn enough to get us our first jobs, but basically 90% of what we "learned" was either wasted or just wrong. Especially in technical fields like engineering or computer science, colleges are usually teaching methods and using equipment years behind the times. Upon leaving college, I found that I had it all to learn over again on the job. If I had known that I would have had to do this before college, I could have saved myself the time and money and just started right out of high school. Unfortunatly, we have a new brand of discrimination in this country which says that if you didn't go to college, you basically don't know anything. I have been out of college now for 12 years, and in that time have seen many new employees from high school, college and technical schools come into mt field. There is basically NO DIFFERENCE between them, except that the college grads THINK they have nothing to learn, having spent enormous sums of money to learn it in college. This makes them a tad more difficult to train than say, a tech school grad who realizes they still have some training to do. This is not intended as a flame against college grads, only as an indictment of the college learning experience. They are not any better at preparing young people for careers than a good high school or tech school program. Therefore they shouldn't try. Colleges should be for preparing people for research or teaching careers. We have instead a society which thinks that in order for a person to get a "job" they must go to college. This is wrong and should be changed. Employers who think that a person is more qualified for a job because they've gone to college are also living a dream; they get peace of mind but they don't really get a better, easier to train employee. My last comment is that if secondary education weren't viewed as being so non-existent, we could alieviate a lot of the above problem. There was a time in this country where a person could get a good job right out of high school. A time where a talented person could advance themselves by working hard, gaining experience and proving themselves, not by simply paying money for a piece of paper which says "I paid lots of money for this piece of paper - hire me!" Please forgive my little tantrum, I've just recieved another new employee to "train" in and I'm not looking forward to it. After all he just came from college and want to "teach" me instead, all about the wonders of punched cards.