johnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) (01/27/89)
In article <2008@lcuxlm.ATT.COM>, ram@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Miani Rich) writes: > I would like some advice, opinions, past experiences, etc regarding the > subject of part-time graduate work. My dilemma: I would like to go > back to school to earn a Ph. D. in Comp. Sci. ( I have an M.S. in C.S. now) > but I would like to do it part-time. I realize that this will take a *very long* > time and that there are a number of major headaches involved. I just > started poking around for info and many schools seem to be opposed to this idea. I think it depends on what you define as "part-time". If you expect to work as an office clerk and also do a Ph.D. in Comp. Sci, then it may be difficult in the U.S. Many universities in Europe offer part-time Ph.D. study, but the emphasis there is much more on individual research and a bit less on classes, seminars, sponsored projects, etc. A suggestion might be to try New York University. They seem to run many of their CS classes in the evenings, so that they're tailored for people who work during the day and study for an M.S. part-time. I don't know about the Ph.D. level work, though. On the other hand, you may be able to get a job in some research lab (such as Bell Labs!), where your area of Ph.D. research is also the work you do in the "day job". Naturally, the employer and your thesis advisor must be in agreement on the topic. I think some universities allow you to conduct some research off-campus. One system I know of is Stanford's Honors Co-Op Program, which allows people employed by local industry to pursue graduate study. Classes are televised, so you don't HAVE to travel to the campus, except for exams, etc. Many people in the program are M.S. students, though I have heard of people doing Ph.D. work too. Typically, the employers have to pay higher than ordinary tuition in this system. (This is a mechanism for the faculty to get research funding.) When there is a fairly close relationship between some faculty members and influential people in industry, it seems possible for someone to do joint research of this type. If you get any useful information, remember to post it here. I'd certainly be interested in how you progress. Good luck! - John Murray (My own opinions, etc. No Amdahl endorsements implied.)
ram@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Miani Rich) (01/28/89)
In article <00JuC36BGP1010IEdew@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, johnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) writes: > In article <2008@lcuxlm.ATT.COM>, ram@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Miani Rich) writes: > > I would like some advice, opinions, past experiences, etc regarding the > > subject of part-time graduate work. My dilemma: I would like to go > > back to school to earn a Ph. D. in Comp. Sci. ( I have an M.S. in C.S. now) > > but I would like to do it part-time. I realize that this will take a *very long* > > time and that there are a number of major headaches involved. I just > > started poking around for info and many schools seem to be opposed to this idea. Thanks to the many people who replied. I think that the consensus is as follows: 1) There are quite a few universities such as Columbia, Princeton, etc. that say flat out that you MUST be full time to pursue a Ph.D. 2) Other schools will let you, but there are many individual policies, so the best bet is to call someone in the CS department at the school you are interested in. DONT CALL anyone from the Registrar's Office as they often give incorrect information ( I found out the hard way :-( ). A sampling of schools that allow part-time : Stanford, U. Illinois UC, NYU, and U South Florida. 3) Some messages suggest that if you work for a research-oriented company , they might be willing to support you. However, to be in a research oriented group, you usually need a Ph.D. to begin with. I work at Bell Labs ( in software development) and this seems to be *largely* the case. If you can do it this way, however, it seems to the best bet ( as advised by all the respondees to my message ). 4) If you are working full-time while trying to do this, it has been suggested by a number of people that the time/work involved in thesis research can kill you. ( or at least put you on the funny farm). Again, the suggestion is to take a leave of absence ( or quit, or work part-time) when thesis time rolls around. 5) There is some question as to the timetable you keep in regard to coursework, qualifying exams, etc. This is school-by-school dependant. 6) Good news: Several responses were from persons who managed to do it!!! Also, several responses from people who want to try. Very few completely negative responses. 7) EVERY message warns about the time involved, so I think it is safe to say that this is for VERY serious students only. Once again, thanks to all those who responded. The input I received has helped me a great deal. Any questions, contact me ( or post to this group ) Rich Miani AT&T Bell Laboratories Liberty Corner, New Jersey ...arpa!lcuxlm!ram ram%lcuxlm@research.att.com
conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) (01/31/89)
In article <2015@lcuxlm.ATT.COM> ram@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Miani Rich) writes: >> > but I would like to do it part-time. I haven't been following all of this discussion, but has anyone addressed the "social" or "cultural" aspects of part-time vs. full-time doctoral study? (By the way not all research doctorates are Doctor of Philosophy--Ph.D.-- degrees; a few engineering schools grant Doctor of Science degrees--D.Sc. or Sc.D. instead.) It seems to me that a very important and large component of education at any level is the "socialization" into an "educated culture". I think that this is especially true of doctoral level study. I have personally benefited as much from my non-classroom interactions with professors and fellow students (during informal discussions and as a part of assistantship work assignments) as from more formal classes and seminars. Part-time students are often "outsiders." To me the research for and writing of a doctoral dissertation is an "apprenticeship" to a "master." It seems to me that part-time doctoral students have greater difficulty in forming such close working relationships. Of course, persons who have the good fortune to overlap their "day job" assignments with their doctoral research may have the best of both worlds! Perhaps my experiences are unique, but, in my five years of full-time employment preceding my return for doctoral study, my work too often tended to concentrate on relatively short term objectives. These objectives were usually determined by others or by external events. We had to complete the program that our boss promised for last last week or handle the disk crash or make a presentation to "customers" or soothe an irate user who called while you were trying to handle the previous items. Doctoral research involves largely self-defined and self-motivated work toward a goal that is a "couple" of years away. Moving from externally motivated "fire fighting" to internally motivated and disciplined "deep thinking" :-) was not easy for me. Trying to work full time in the environment I described and completing doctoral research probably would not have been possible. Another social aspect is "hunger". I have found it easy to drift off course in my doctoral program. This tendency might have been worse had not been for the "economic deprivation" that usually accompanies being a full-time student. :-) Conrad Cunningham A I-hope-soon recipient of a D.Sc. in CS
choo@aqua.cs.yale.edu (young-il choo) (02/01/89)
In article <669@wucs1.wustl.edu> conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes: In article <2015@lcuxlm.ATT.COM> ram@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Miani Rich) writes: >> > but I would like to do it part-time. I haven't been following all of this discussion, but has anyone addressed the "social" or "cultural" aspects of part-time vs. full-time doctoral study? [...] It seems to me that a very important and large component of education at any level is the "socialization" into an "educated culture". I think that this is especially true of doctoral level study. [...] To me the research for and writing of a doctoral dissertation is an "apprenticeship" to a "master." [more good stuff deleted] Conrad Cunningham A I-hope-soon recipient of a D.Sc. in CS I strongly second the idea that working on a doctorate is an "apprenticeship" to a "master". The class work etc. are the basics required of any profession, but to do research I believe you need a perspective of what the important questions and open problems are in the field as well as the nuts and bolts of how to do research. And the best way to develop such a perspective is by studying under and, working, talking and even arguing with someone who already is a "master" (shouldn't this be "doctor"?). This takes time. -- Young-il Choo [Yale Computer Science choo-young-il@cs.yale.edu]
ram@lcuxlm.ATT.COM (Miani Rich) (02/02/89)
> > In article <669@wucs1.wustl.edu> conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes: > > I haven't been following all of this discussion, but has anyone > addressed the "social" or "cultural" aspects of part-time vs. > full-time doctoral study? [...] > > It seems to me that a very important and large component of education > at any level is the "socialization" into an "educated culture". I think > that this is especially true of doctoral level study. [...] > > To me the research for and writing of a doctoral dissertation is an > "apprenticeship" to a "master." > > [more good stuff deleted] > > > I strongly second the idea that working on a doctorate is an > "apprenticeship" to a "master". The class work etc. are the basics ------------------------------ stuff deleted ------------------------------ > > And the best way to develop such a perspective is by studying under and, > working, talking and even arguing with someone who already is a "master" > (shouldn't this be "doctor"?). This takes time. > I too, agree ( even though I opened this whole can of worms...). In getting my MS, a significant portion of my overall learning was out of the classroom and in one-on-one with faculty. HOWEVER, there are people who are extremely serious about the desire to complete a PhD and do not have the economic resources to do it full time ( translated --> cannot afford the pay cut from a full salaried employee to assistants' support wages ). A middle of the road solution for us would-be part-timers is to complete all the required course-work on a part-time basis and then take a leave of absence ( or whatever) from work and start full-time when thesis/research time rolls around. Rich Miani AT&T Bell Labs Liberty Corner, NJ ram%lcuxlm@research.att.com ..arpa!lcuxlm!ram