johnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) (02/02/89)
In article <669@wucs1.wustl.edu>, conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes: > . . .. (By the way not all research doctorates are > Doctor of Philosophy--Ph.D.-- degrees; a few engineering schools grant > Doctor of Science degrees--D.Sc. or Sc.D. instead.) Anyone care to comment on exactly what the differences are between these degrees? Isn't it more of a naming convention than anything else? - John Murray.
conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) (02/02/89)
In article <02lc3af66p101003bfE@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> johnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) writes: >In article <669@wucs1.wustl.edu>, conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes: >> . . .. (By the way not all research doctorates are >> Doctor of Philosophy--Ph.D.-- degrees; a few engineering schools grant >> Doctor of Science degrees--D.Sc. or Sc.D. instead.) > >Anyone care to comment on exactly what the differences are between these >degrees? Isn't it more of a naming convention than anything else? > >- John Murray. At Washington University the doctoral degrees granted by the graduate school of arts and sciences are Doctor of Philosophy degrees; those granted by the graduate school of engineering and applied sciences are Doctor of Science (D.Sc.) degrees. (The Department of Computer Science is in the engineering school.) As far as I know, the requirements for the Ph.D. and the D.Sc. are the "same," given the different natures of the disciplines. (I don't think any of the D.Sc. programs require foreign language reading knowledge; most of the liberal arts Ph.D. programs probably do.) I suppose that somewhere along the line someone just decided that Science was more appropriate than Philosophy in a title for an engineering and applied science degree. It also matches the Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees granted at a lower level. Are there any Computer Science programs that grant more than one kind of doctorate? I think there are some institutions which grant "Engineer", or something such, degrees that are intermediate between a masters and a doctorate and are less research oriented than a doctorate. Conrad Cunningham
elm@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (ethan miller) (02/03/89)
In article <677@wucs1.wustl.edu> conrad@wucs1.UUCP (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes
#Are there any Computer Science programs that grant more than one kind
#of doctorate? I think there are some institutions which grant
#"Engineer", or something such, degrees that are intermediate between a
#masters and a doctorate and are less research oriented than a doctorate.
The School of Engineering here at Cal gives out both Ph.D. and D.Eng. (Doctor
of Engineering). I have no idea what D.Eng. actually is, but I believe
it is more industry-oriented and less academia-oriented.
ethan
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
ethan miller (UCB CS grad student) | bandersnatch@ernie.berkeley.edu
"Quod erat demonstrandum, baby." -T. Dolby | {...}!ucbvax!ernie!bandersnatchjohnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) (02/04/89)
In article <677@wucs1.wustl.edu>, conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes: > Are there any Computer Science programs that grant more than one kind > of doctorate? I think there are some institutions which grant > "Engineer", or something such, degrees that are intermediate between a > masters and a doctorate and are less research oriented than a doctorate. I think UMich at Ann Arbor offers both PhD and DSc (in Industrial Eng. anyway); dunno about CS, or what the difference is, though it might be related to which field has been studied as a Minor topic. Stanford offers "Engineer" degrees for an year's course work (beyond the Master's), together with a thesis covering non-original work. The degree is supposed to be aimed at people seeking a qualification which is more industrially-oriented. However, it seems to have a reputation (among some students, anyway) as being mostly a compensation for people who've failed the PhD candidacy exams, and they question its value (to industry) when compared to a Master's degree. Under the "British" university system, people heading for a PhD generally register initially (after the Bachelor's) for a MPhil degree, consisting mostly of coursework. Suitable people can then transfer to work on a PhD, which is much more research-oriented than in the U.S. system. There is no real equivalent of the U.S. candidacy exams, as far as I know. - John Murray (My own opinions, etc.)
efrethei@afit-ab.arpa (Erik J. Fretheim) (02/05/89)
In article <9456@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> bandersnatch@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (ethan miller) writes: >In article <677@wucs1.wustl.edu> conrad@wucs1.UUCP (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes >#Are there any Computer Science programs that grant more than one kind >#of doctorate? I think there are some institutions which grant >#"Engineer", or something such, degrees that are intermediate between a >#masters and a doctorate and are less research oriented than a doctorate. > >The School of Engineering here at Cal gives out both Ph.D. and D.Eng. (Doctor >of Engineering). I have no idea what D.Eng. actually is, but I believe >it is more industry-oriented and less academia-oriented. > Pretty much it. The general idea is that the Ph.D. or Doctorate of Philosophy degree is awarded to a scholar who has extended the bounds of knowledge with a capital K, in the particular area. The degree holder has a specific area in which he has concertrated, but is expected to be able to perform well in other areas too. The principle ability which he has acquired is the ability to think deeply and creatively (philosophically) about a problem. The D.Eng. D.Sci. etc, has more particular state-of-the-art knowledge in his area. He is more concerned with the application of this knowledge to new problems than discovering new Knowledge. Generally, this means more courses and an application type thesis, as opposed to a dissertation which makes an orignal contribution to the big K. A Eng.D. on the other hand is from a school which has forgotten it's Latin. At least this is the theoretical differences in the degrees. In practice there can be a wide discrepancy from school to school. There is also an Engineer degree from some schools. Basically, all of the courses, but not oriented toward research.
rorr@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk (Rodney Orr) (02/07/89)
From article <677@wucs1.wustl.edu>, by conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham): > In article <02lc3af66p101003bfE@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> johnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) writes: >>In article <669@wucs1.wustl.edu>, conrad@wucs1.wustl.edu (H. Conrad Cunningham) writes: >>> . . .. (By the way not all research doctorates are >>> Doctor of Philosophy--Ph.D.-- degrees; a few engineering schools grant >>> Doctor of Science degrees--D.Sc. or Sc.D. instead.) >> >>Anyone care to comment on exactly what the differences are between these >>degrees? Isn't it more of a naming convention than anything else? >> >>- John Murray. > > At Washington University the doctoral degrees granted by the graduate school > of arts and sciences are Doctor of Philosophy degrees; those granted by > the graduate school of engineering and applied sciences are Doctor of Science > (D.Sc.) degrees. (The Department of Computer Science is in the > engineering school.) ... Here in the UK, a Doctor of Science degree is usually treated as a 'super degree' awarded to people who have developed a high standing in their field (in a science/engineering discipline). This usually means that they have a Ph.D. already and have a large high-quality publication list. Usually it also requires that they have made some sort of break-through in their field. You dont actually 'study' for this degree - it is almost like an honorary degree. Its really rather rare for D.Sc. to be awarded in this country. Rodney ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rodney Orr RT3113, British Telecom Research Labs., Martlesham Heath, Ipswich IP5 7RE, U.K. +44 473 645091 e-mail: rorr@axion.bt.co.uk (...!mcvax!ukc!axion!rorr)
choo@aqua.cs.yale.edu (young-il choo) (02/10/89)
On the origin of PhD: It may help to know that these titles originated in the medieval university (ca. 13th century) when the course of studies were divided basically into (give or take one or two, like music): ThD Theology ? Classics (Greek and Latin) MD Medicine (latin: Medicinae Doctor) LL D Law (latin: legum doctor) PhD Philosophy (everything we today call "science", including math.) So, according to their classification, everything we call science does fall under philosophy, the more Greek tradition. -- Young-il Choo [Yale Computer Science choo-young-il@cs.yale.edu]
efrethei@afit-ab.arpa (Erik J. Fretheim) (02/11/89)
In article <50184@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> choo@aqua.cs.yale.edu (young-il choo) writes: > >On the origin of PhD: > >It may help to know that these titles originated in the medieval university >(ca. 13th century) when the course of studies were divided basically into >(give or take one or two, like music): > >ThD Theology >? Classics (Greek and Latin) >MD Medicine (latin: Medicinae Doctor) >LL D Law (latin: legum doctor) >PhD Philosophy (everything we today call "science", including math.) > >So, according to their classification, everything we call science does fall >under philosophy, the more Greek tradition. > >-- Young-il Choo [Yale Computer Science choo-young-il@cs.yale.edu] Yes, and I believe if you check, your department can probably trace its origins back to a Department of Philosophy. Most of our older universities can. Usually these later split into physics and Mathematics departments, which went on to sprout chemistry and computer science amoung other things. Engineering on the other hand comes more often from Drawing and such departments. Our modern philosophy departments are usually outgrowths of English departments which were only needed when people stopped taking as many Latin and Greek courses and important books (engineering, science, etc) were written in English instead of French, etc. ejf
jwb@cive.ri.cmu.edu (John Baugh) (02/13/89)
In article <912@afit-ab.arpa> efrethei@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Erik J. Fretheim) writes: >Engineering on the other hand comes more often from Drawing and such >departments. What? I believe the basis for enineering begin with people like Newton and Hooke, though their theories weren't consistently applied until the nineteenth century. At this time, a Frenchman named Cauchy generalized the concepts of stress and strain, which were then used by the French. Before this time, pragmatism (without theory) was the rule (e.g., the master builders). I'm not sure how this fits in with university studies, but wasn't the initial distinction in engineering based on military/civil? John Baugh --
nick@cs.hw.ac.uk (Nick Taylor) (02/14/89)
I have found the explanations of these different terms as used in the USA
most illuminating. This is because it differs considerably from the British
usage of the terms.
In Britain doctorates can be awarded in three ways :
a). After the usual research, thesis write-up and viva process has been
completed successfully the university at which you are registered may
award a Ph.D. or D.Phil. This is the normal Ph.D.;
b). After a considerable amount of quality original work has been done
(Eg. 50 excellent papers produced) or a highly significant contribution
to the commercial applications of a field of study a university which
awarded you one of your degrees (usually your first) may honour you with a
D.Sc. or an Sc.D. This is regarded as a tremendous accolade;
c). Universities offer honourary doctorates to all sorts of Toms, Dicks and
Harrys such as royalty, politicians, captains of industry for no
particular reason other than that they wish to flatter them. These kind
of doctorates are more important for who they are not awarded to than
for who they are awarded to. Viz. Oxford always give the PM an honourary
doctorate. They refused to give one to the Maggon (Margaret Thatcher).
This, of course, became big news here!
So, when you see somebody with a British D.Sc. or Sc.D. remember that this
really is something special. Most of them these days have a Ph.D. or D.Phil.
as well so you shouldn't have much trouble identifying them.
Nick Taylor "Life? Don't talk to me about life!" Marvin the paranoid android
Department of Computer Science JANET : NICK@UK.AC.HW.CS
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