gunnaro@rhi.hi.is (Gunnar Orvarsson) (12/18/89)
Reykjavik, 18.12. 1989
To whom it may concern,
On behalf of the students in the University Council of the University
of Iceland, we would like, with this article, to ask you for some information
regarding the entrance regulations in your universities for students without
a standard secondary school diploma.
We would like the present regulation valid in the University of
Iceland to be revised, as today the chances of admission for these students
are not only minimal, but also dependent on ad hoc decision of faculties
or even persons. We have the impression that the chances of admission of
these students in other countries are greater and that the decisions involved
are less subjectively made. In order for us to be able to prepare our issue
as thoroughly as possible, it would be of great help to receive information
from as many universities as possible. Therefore we would be greatful if
you could answer these following questions, or, otherwise, if you consult
someone who can.
1. What are the standard regulations for admission of students without a
secondary school diploma?
What is the general purpose of these regulations?
2. Is each application treated separately? By whom and on the basis of
what information? Is the agae of the applicant of importance? Other
factors?
3. What has been the experience with these regulations so far? Are there
many such applications? Are some groups more represented among the
applicants than others ( men/women, unemployed, foreign students,...)?
Are the applications aimed at specific faculties or studies more than
others? How is the performance of these students?
4. Are the students/teachers at your universities generally satisfied with
these regulations? Have specific criticisms come up? Have alternatives
been suggested? Have other regulations existed in the past? If so,
when and why were they changed?
Please, e-mail your answers directly to me, or post them as an article on
this newsgroup.
With sincere thanks and friendly greetings,
on behalf of Roskva, The union of socially orientated students in the
Universty of Iceland,
Gunnar Orvarsson (gunnaro@rhi.hi.is)
Physical address:
Gunnar Orvarsson
Vikurbakka 14
109 Reykjavik
Icelandjpp@tygra.UUCP (John Palmer) (12/19/89)
I'm not an official with Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan, but I know that people need either a high school diploma or a general education certificate. The ad-hoc admission standards should be eliminated for the good of everyone. Even when there are standards in place, there must be some overseer to make sure that people can't circumvent them. I have personal knowledge that this occurs at Wayne State - particularily in the Computer Science Department. The university bulletin states that a student must have at least a 3.0 G.P.A. to be admitted to the Master's Program, but I know that there are many students (especially foreign students) who have GPA's under 3.0, some of them with 1.5's and 1.6's. The only time that the CS department pulls out the rule book is if someone in charge of admissions has something personal against the applicant, or is a friend of someone who has such a grudge. The moral of the story: "Be sure to have a very strong overseer". -- = CAT-TALK Conferencing Network, Prototype Computer Conferencing System = - 300/1200/2400 baud, 8/N/1. Want a login id?? Dial us up, type 'new' - = as a login id. E-Mail Address: ...!sharkey!tygra!jpp = - "...no one in all the world is innocent", -- a biblical scholar - -- = CAT-TALK Conferencing Network, Prototype Computer Conferencing System = - 300/1200/2400 baud, 8/N/1. Want a login id?? Dial us up, type 'new' - = as a login id. E-Mail Address: ...!sharkey!tygra!jpp = - "...no one in all the world is innocent", -- a biblical scholar -
jwhite@garnet.berkeley.edu (Jonathan White) (12/20/89)
The California master plan for higher education provides for three levels: The University of California, The California State University system, and the California Community College the Community Colleges provide, among other things, two year academic degrees. To attend one of these two year schools you must be a high school graduate or 18 years of age. Those who have gotten a degree from one ^^ of the Community Colleges are then eligable to go on to the University of California or one of the State Universities depending on their GPA on graduating (it must be higher to go to U.C. than to the Cal State system) jonathan
cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) (12/21/89)
In article <10@tygra.UUCP> jpp@tygra.UUCP (John Palmer) writes: > >I'm not an official with Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan, but >I know that people need either a high school diploma or a general education >certificate. > >The ad-hoc admission standards should be eliminated for the good of everyone. >Even when there are standards in place, there must be some overseer to make >sure that people can't circumvent them. Having much experience in the matter, I disagree completely. Purdue does not usually admit students without high school diplomas, but only good students in that category. The problem is with students who have a high school diploma which states that the student has had certain courses with certain grades; even this is not trustworthy, and the course contents may be almost non-existent. Meaningful standards do not mean grades and credentials. >I have personal knowledge that this occurs at Wayne State - particularily >in the Computer Science Department. The university bulletin states that a >student must have at least a 3.0 G.P.A. to be admitted to the Master's >Program, but I know that there are many students (especially foreign >students) who have GPA's under 3.0, some of them with 1.5's and 1.6's. >The only time that the CS department pulls out the rule book is if someone >in charge of admissions has something personal against the applicant, or >is a friend of someone who has such a grudge. The moral of the story: >"Be sure to have a very strong overseer". I know much more about admissions to graduate programs, and I assure you that foreign students are scrutinized much more carefully than American students. Are you sure that you understand a foreign transcript? Do you know what the grades mean? I have much less difficulty in assessing a foreign student than an American student, and I doubt that CS departments are more desperate than mathematics or statistics departments are. In mathematics and statistics, finding American students for the PhD program is a real problem, and I under- stand that this is also the case in CS. Most departments will not support foreign students who are not interested in a PhD, and a typical MS program does not lead to a PhD program. -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907 Phone: (317)494-6054 hrubin@l.cc.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet, UUCP)
fhadsell@csm9a.UUCP ( GP) (12/25/89)
In article <1797@l.cc.purdue.edu>, cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes: > In article <10@tygra.UUCP> jpp@tygra.UUCP (John Palmer) writes: > > > > ....... > >The ad-hoc admission standards should be eliminated for the good of everyone. > >Even when there are standards in place, there must be some overseer to make > >sure that people can't circumvent them. > > Having much experience in the matter, I disagree completely. Purdue does not > usually admit students without high school diplomas, but only good students > in that category. The problem is with students who have a high school > diploma which states that the student has had certain courses with certain > grades; even this is not trustworthy, and the course contents may be almost > non-existent. Meaningful standards do not mean grades and credentials. > > >I have personal knowledge that this occurs at Wayne State - particularily > >in the Computer Science Department. The university bulletin states that a > >student must have at least a 3.0 G.P.A. to be admitted to the Master's > >Program, but I know that there are many students (especially foreign > >students) who have GPA's under 3.0, some of them with 1.5's and 1.6's. > > ......... > > I know much more about admissions to graduate programs, and I assure you that > foreign students are scrutinized much more carefully than American students. > Are you sure that you understand a foreign transcript? Do you know what the > ....... > -- > Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907 > Phone: (317)494-6054 > hrubin@l.cc.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet, UUCP) At Colorado School of Mines the big debate concerning admission of grad- uate students has, for the last 30 years, been the Graduate Admission Examination. The majority opinion seems to be that the GRE is useful, but not essential, for US candidates; however, it is essential for foreign applicants. Hard-and-fast admission requirements always seem to come back to haunt us. Some of our best students, and admitedly some of our worst, have been those who we wouldn't normally admit, but who had something special in their portfolio that we thought we needed. Academe in general and US Academe in particular is changing drastically, probably for the better. At CSM, and other schools that have dedicated a major portion of their effort to mineral resources, we probably see the change first because the change in the national economy is most directly related to what are students are to do. CSM, for example, must change to survive, and it is constrained because it is a state school Thus it should not attempt to move directly into areas traditionally covered by CU and CSU (football for example). The only salvation for CSM that I see is the foreign graduate student. We must recognize that we can no longer export oil, and much less coal, but we can export knowledge to those who have an abundance of oil, coal, and other minerals. This is happening to CSM today, it will happen to your school tomorrow, unless you recognize how the tide is flowing. Keep your admission standards flexible to accommodate students who view the World much differently than you. With this flexibility maintain high standards. This is not easy and requires a lot of work from departmental admission committees. With a flexible admissions procedure you must be prepared to make mistakes and under those circumstances you must withhold degrees, without destroying the individual. This requires meaningful grades from the short-quiz to the Ph.D. comprehensive. This is no minor challenge when you are trying to find research monies essential to graduate scholarships. -- INTERNET:: fhadsell@csm9a.colorado.edu BITNET:: fhadsell@mines Frank Hadsell, Prof. of Geophysics, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado 80401 (303) 273-3456