[comp.edu] Teaching teaching.

david.lloyd-jones@rose.uucp (DAVID LLOYD-JONES) (05/04/91)

Replying to: grant@psych.toronto.edu (Stuart Grant)
>Orga: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
>


>
>Calling the education faculty math courses wimpy, and making math teachers
>take "regular" math courses is not the answer. The quality of math
>instruction will improve if teachers are given more training in the
>teaching of math. Teaching math is difficult, Motivating students and
>getting across abstract concepts that the students have not used before
>is, I believe, the greatest difficulty.
>
>So, I think math instruction can be best improved not by teaching the
>teachers more math, but by giving them more teaching skills, including
>additinal training in how to teach math.
>


This assumes that there is a body of knowledge, "knowledge about the
teaching of...."

I would be interested to know if you have evidence for this.

                                   * * *

It will not satisfy me to be told that "effective teachers do thus and so."
What I need are examples of things which can be taught to people who are
not effective teachers with the result that they become effective teachers.

If it is your claim that ineffective teachers can learn the techniques
which effective teachers use -- and in so doing so then change into effective
teachers -- then I would require some evidence for this claim.   The claim
is often made, with the assumption that it is self-evident.  I do not
believe that it is self-evident, and think it highly likely that it is false.

                                            -dlj.






---
 
 

news@dirac.physics.purdue.edu (news) (05/06/91)

discipline skills with considerable interest as I have recently commenced
a doctoral program in Physics Education and frequently deal with some of these
concerns.
From: danmac@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. MacIsaac)
Path: maxwell.physics.purdue.edu!danmac

POLITICAL & SOCIAL CLIMATE

Certainly in North America. the educational profession lacks anything like an 
appropriate level of social, political and financial recognition.  In other
cultures, teachers are greatly respected and paid (eg -- the European title
PROFESSOR means something, as does SENSEI elsewhere).  I am from Canada where
grade school teachers are paid 2-3 times better and respected somewhat better
than the US.  Here in Indiana, hundreds of teachers have recently received
layoff notices regardless of Gubernatorial and Presidental 'commitment' to
education and the voting population does not seem very upset. 

 One of my
colleagues breaking into the profession here in Indiana substitute teaches
for the sum of $35/day (no benefits) in the hopes of eventual amployment.  I
subbed in Canada for $100/day (no benefits) and found it nerve-wracking;  
I suspect that flipping burgers would be more lucrative and less stressful 
here in the US.

My limited experience (came to the US in Jan) has revealed that education has
little or no prestige in Indiana; it seems to be the favourite political
whipping-boy.  Even in enlightened institutions like Purdue the field is
treated with scorn and there is literally no percentage in a professor in 
(for example) Physics working very hard on improving undergraduate instruction 
as there is little or no recognition for doing so, and perhaps even less 
time or financial support.

TEACHERS AND DISCIPLINARY CONTENT SKILLS

It is widely recognized that the majority of teachers in science and 
mathematics never develop abilities beyond amateur status.  Therefore, teachers teach from the level of amateurs, not experts and therefore must present a
stilted view of their discipline.  This does not mean that this is necessarily
a fatal problem to be rectified by bringing in professionals (this was tried
in the post-Sputnik cold war hysteria and failed to produce results after an
enormous amount of $$ were spent in the US), but it is a problem that must be
recognized.  A partial solution is to educate teachers to a given level of
competence (require all HS teachers have an undergrad degree in their field,
then a BEd afterwards), and promote the study of subject discipline philosophy
for these teachers.  Certainly the majority of the students will not become
mathematicians or scientists themselves, but require both probelm-solving
and judgemental skills to participate in and make public policy for a modern
technical society.  These can be taught from an amateur expertise with a
philosophical overview.

In any event, I don't think that the entire disciplines themselves are worthy
of instruction to grade school students; certainly the ethos and unspoken 
attitudes of the sciences and mathematics are not all worthy of instruction.  
I TA'ed an undergrad Physics lab course this term for Physics majors, and 
taught 40 students of whom one was black and none were female.  This is fairly
representative of the department as a whole.  Part of the reason teachers are
given what little respect and appreciation they do receive is because we tend
to view then as moral and responsible individuals working to improve society,
or at least to emphasize the better features of society in their instruction.
John Dewey wrote considerable amounts concerning the role of schooling in
societal evolution.

TEACHERS AND NON-DISCIPLINARY SKILLS

Some comments have expressed reservations that teachers do not require skills
beyond their subject discipline. Eg:
> It will not satisfy me to be told that "effective teachers do thus and so."
> What I need are examples of things which can be taught to people who are
> not effective teachers with the result that they become effective teachers.

There are MANY non-subject area skills required of teachers and a great deal of
expertise (and even artistry) is required to be an effective grade school
teacher.  Universities are full of gifted research or theoretical scientists and
mathematicians who cannot teach to adults, let alone children.  Some examples
of the skills and understanding required include human development (try teaching
junior high school some time with 30 mid-puberty students :^), psychology, 
developmental psychology and cognition (how human beings learn and how we can
teach accordingly), counselling, classroom management and discipline (I have
taught on a native reserve and have seen teachers struck in anger), an ability
to really listen to others (the rarest skill of all in people), technical and
budgetary skills, and political ability.  These are only partially teachable;
after teacher preparation is done at a university, teachers will continue to 
train themselves in their professions all of their lives (as well as enduring
largely politically-motivated inservices) and will often return for graduate
training as well.

I'm over 100 lines into an opinionated, inflammatory unreferenced babble so
this is probably a good place to stop.  Please email follow-ups to me
personally as well as posting, as I don't read all of the groups I seen
cross-posted to in the ehaders of this thread.  I only read sci.edu and
comp.edu.

Dan
 
[Physics] '...is a narrow and rigid education, probably more so than any other
except perhaps in orthodox theology'
                        --  T.S. Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
Dan MacIsaac, Physics Ed Grad Student, danmac@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu
[Physics] '...is a narrow and rigid education, probably more so than any other
except perhaps in orthodox theology'
                        --  T.S. Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
Dan MacIsaac, Physics Ed Grad Student, danmac@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu

marti@saturn.ucsc.edu (Marti Atkinson) (05/07/91)

>>So, I think math instruction can be best improved not by teaching the
>>teachers more math, but by giving them more teaching skills, including
>>additinal training in how to teach math.

>This assumes that there is a body of knowledge, "knowledge about the
>teaching of...."

>I would be interested to know if you have evidence for this.

Actually, there is a rather large literature on the best ways
to teach mathmatics, physics and a great variety of other
subjects.  The SESAME graduate program at UC Berkeley
deals with exactly that subject... researching the best
ways to teach math and science classes.

Marti Atkinson
University of Calif. at Santa Cruz  
marti@saturn.ucsc.edu
marti@uccrls.BITNET
..!ucbvax!ucscc!saturn!marti

manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis) (05/23/91)

In article <fb44621488e92822eb24@rose.uucp> david.lloyd-jones@rose.uucp
(DAVID LLOYD-JONES) writes: 
>This assumes that there is a body of knowledge, "knowledge about the
>teaching of...."
>
>I would be interested to know if you have evidence for this.
 
There is indeed a body of knowledge about the teaching of mathematics.
To be precise, there are two such bodies, one developed by
mathematicians and teachers who have attempted to teach mathematics, and
one developed by educational theorists who teach mathematics methods
courses.

I took a mathematics methods course some 15 years ago as part of my
teacher-training program. On the first day, we spent the afternoon doing
anything we wanted to with Cuisenaire rods (those coloured wooden rods
they use in elementary school). I built a house. It was a very nice
house. I had a lot of fun. I felt good. I learned nothing about teaching
mathematics. Later on we built more houses. 

--
\    Vincent Manis <manis@cs.ubc.ca>      "There is no law that vulgarity and
 \   Department of Computer Science      literary excellence cannot coexist."
 /\  University of British Columbia                        -- A. Trevor Hodge
/  \ Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1W5 (604) 228-2394