[comp.dcom.lans] "Remote" Ethernets?

kiessig@mordor.s1.gov (Rick Kiessig) (04/21/87)

Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills.  Thanks,

Rick

scarter@caip.RUTGERS.EDU (Stephen M. Carter) (04/22/87)

In article <7381@mordor.s1.gov> kiessig@mordor.s1.gov (Rick Kiessig) writes:
>Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
>remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
>of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
>are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills.  Thanks,

We use T1.  Other choices are 9.6-56kb line(s).  Contact Cisco or Bridge
(or us) for more info.  We use cisco gateways for our T1 connections.

howard@COS.COM (Howard C. Berkowitz) (04/22/87)

In article <7381@mordor.s1.gov>, kiessig@mordor.s1.gov (Rick Kiessig) writes:
> Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
> remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
> of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
> are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills.  Thanks,

There are two basic approaches, depending on your performance
needs, budget, and protocols used.  The first is a MAC-layer
bridge, which recognizes Ethernet frames not on the local
LAN and sends them, via hopefully high-speed lines, to
the other LAN.  Bridges are transparent to protocols above
the link control layer.  For performance to be anywhere near
transparent, you would want at least 56 KBPS on a lightly
loaded LAN and 1 MBPS or more on a heavily loaded one.

Vitalink is a major manufacturer of long-haul (i.e., where
you can't run cable or fiber between the bridges of each
LAN); there are others (e.g., DEC) for cases where you can run your own facilities.

Routers are more intelligent than bridges, and might give
better utilization of lower-speed lines.  They are not
transparent to network-layer protocols such as OSI Internet,
DDN IP, DECnet routing layer, etc.

I suspect your major constraint will be the speed of the
line you can get and afford.  56 KBPS is available on
DDS, and in some areas as switched digital service on
an as-needed basis.  For DS1 channels at 1.544 MBPS,
you can get T1 carrier from telephone companies (or
build them yourself), possibly get CATV-based data if
your areas are served by a single cable TV firm, use
satellite (probably overkill), or, if you can get
rights-of-way and can maintain it, a free-space microwave
or laser link.

bsteve@gorgo.UUCP (04/22/87)

kiessig@mordor writes:

>Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
>remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
>of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
>are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills. 

There is an ethernet bridge for the AT&T ISN that allows up to 1000 miles
between bridged ethernets. It can be bridged via 56Kb digital service,
though T-1 is preferable, and microwave T-1 is most preferable.

   Steve Blasingame (Oklahoma City)
   ihnp4!gorgo!bsteve

phil@amdcad.UUCP (04/23/87)

In article <4192@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> scarter@caip.rutgers.edu (Stephen M. Carter) writes:
-In article <7381@mordor.s1.gov> kiessig@mordor.s1.gov (Rick Kiessig) writes:
->Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
->remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
->of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
->are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills.  Thanks,
-
-We use T1.  Other choices are 9.6-56kb line(s).  Contact Cisco or Bridge
-(or us) for more info.  We use cisco gateways for our T1 connections.

We bought a bunch of Bridge Comm GS-3 TCP/IP internet routers and
we're sorry we did. For example, they claim to be TCP/IP but don't
implement ICMP. Let's not even mention network management.  Or boxes
which crashed several times a day.  I suggest you look at Cisco or
Proteon. I also know Ungerman Bass was working on a router product,
although they didn't seem to use the same words as the rest of the
world, it seemed to do the things I would expect from a router.  If
you want a bridge (lower case b), Translan has some interesting
products also. They were working on using an Amiga as a network
management console. Might be fun and sexy, etc. 

-- 
Phil Ngai, {ucbvax,decwrl,allegra}!amdcad!phil or amdcad!phil@decwrl.dec.com

normt@ihlpa.UUCP (04/23/87)

> Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
> remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
> of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
> are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills.  Thanks,
> Rick
	There is a product available from DEC, called TransLAN (actually
	it is a joint product DEC and Vitalink). It supports an IEEE 802.3
	connection on one side and an RS-232 or V.35 connection on the
	other side. They have different version that can connect to 
	satellite or terrestrial links. (i.e. local microwave or dedicated
	line) The two versions I have seen operate at up to 400Kb/s and
	up to 2.048Mb/s.

	The latest DECdirect catalog does not have the price in it, and says
	that TransLAN is serviced and supported by Vitalink. 

	I have not used nor know anyone using this product, but I assume
	other manufacturers have similar LAN to RS-232 or something
	bridges available.

		Norm Tiedemann	ihnp4!ihlpa!normt
		AT&T Bell Labs
		Naperville, IL
			 60566

skip@ubvax.UUCP (Stayton D Addison Jr) (04/25/87)

In article <16313@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) writes:
> ...
>Proteon. I also know Ungerman Bass was working on a router product,
>although they didn't seem to use the same words as the rest of the
>world, it seemed to do the things I would expect from a router.  If
> ...
>-- 
>Phil Ngai, {ucbvax,decwrl,allegra}!amdcad!phil or amdcad!phil@decwrl.dec.com

When I became product manager for the internetworking products at U-B, one
of the first things I did (effective 1-1-87) was change the name of the
software packages.  They're now  "Data Link Bridge" and "XNS Router".
The same hardware runs both software so we still just call it the High Speed
Remote Bridge.


-- Skip Addison
   {lll-crg, decwrl, ihnp4}!amdcad!cae780!ubvax!skip
   or sun!amd!ubvax!skip

kwe@bu-cs.BU.EDU (kwe@buit1.bu.edu (Kent W. England)) (04/28/87)

In article <7381@mordor.s1.gov> kiessig@mordor.s1.gov (Rick Kiessig) writes:
>Has anyone heard of a device which might be used to allow two
>remote ethernets to talk to one another?  About all I can think
>of is using serial lines.  Is there anything better?  The LANs
>are about 50 miles apart, separated by hills.  Thanks,
>
	Has anyone ever heard of Ethernet over microwave directly at
10Mbps instead of via telco standard T-1?  Well, it's here.  There are
currently three vendors in the field, although I read recently that
DEC is coming out with product (I think with Vitalink).  The idea is
to present an equivalent transceiver interface to a bridge or router
and then interface to standard microwave gear maintaining Ethernet
signaling.  You do the same thing on the other end.  The microwave
link is the equivalent of a separate Ethernet segment (required
because of timing considerations which prevent collision enforcement
across the microwave link).  You can use repeaters, bridges, routers,
or hosts as the system interface on each end.  You cannot plug
directly onto the Ethernet as with a local repeater.  Following is a
list of the three vendors I have discovered:

	Microwave Bypass, Kendall Square, Cambridge, MA  617-494-8700
	LAN Connection, Lexington, MA
	Microwave Networks, Houston, TX

	If you are interested in further information, contact the
vendors or send me mail and I will give you further information.
Please note that I have no vested interest in these vendors or their
products and that this message in not an endorsement or a solicitation
for commercial gain.

	The cost of Ethernet over microwave is equivalent to the cost
of T-1.  You can still mux T-1 over the link with the Ethernet so you
can also link your PBXs on the same path.  Of course, the phone
company does not support this service.  You must own the entire route
yourself, which may be a problem at 50 miles.  Also note that this is
23 GHz service.  This is better and easier to get for short-haul.  I'm
not sure about 50 miles, though.
-- 
	 --------------------------------------------
	|	Kent W. England                      |
	|	Network & Systems Engineering Group  |
	|	Boston University                    |
	|	Information Technology               |
	|	111 Cummington Street                |
	|	Boston, MA      02215                |
	|	(617) 353-2780                       |
	|	kwe@buit1.bu.edu	internet     |
	|	itkwe@bostonu		BITNET       |
	 --------------------------------------------