[comp.dcom.lans] Ethernet - Hyperchannel Gateway

roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger B.A. Klorese) (10/14/87)

Does anyone know of a product providing an Ethernet-to-Hyperchannel
gateway?  I'm looking for a "black box" to sit on an ethernet and
pass TCP-IP and its friends in both directions.
-- 
 ///==\\   (Your message here...)
///        Roger B.A. Klorese, CELERITY (Northeast Area)
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shor@sphinx.uchicago.edu (Melinda Shore) (10/14/87)

In article <1822@celtics.UUCP> roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>Does anyone know of a product providing an Ethernet-to-Hyperchannel
>gateway?  I'm looking for a "black box" to sit on an ethernet and
>pass TCP-IP and its friends in both directions.

No offense, but ha, ha, ha.  We're in the same position, since we
need to run TCP/IP on our Cray and we get to the machine through the
Hyperchannel, and the whole thing has been pretty aggravating.  Don't
bother talking with NSC, they don't even have their IP-able driver
in alpha-test yet.

It turns out that most of the people in the world who do this use a
Sun.  John Lekashman at NASA-Ames has modified 4.3 if_hy.c so that
actually works on a macro-Vax (Unibus), and I've almost finished
hacking that up to work on with a PI12 on a microVax.  John's driver is
available for anonymous ftp from orville.arpa.  Contact me if you want
the microVax version.

As far as I know, nobody has come up with any kind of standalone
bridge.
-- 
Melinda Shore                                   ..!hao!oddjob!sphinx!shor
Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center                     shore@morgul.psc.edu

wade@violet.berkeley.edu (Wade Stebbings) (10/15/87)

> Does anyone know of a product providing an Ethernet-to-Hyperchannel
> gateway?  I'm looking for a "black box" to sit on an ethernet and
> pass TCP-IP and its friends in both directions.

We dedicate a Vax 750 for this purpose, but I hear that Network
Systems is going to offer an ethernet adapter soon.  Unfortunately,
this is all I know about it.  Check with your local NSC rep.

	Wade Stebbings
	CFC -- UC Berkeley
	wade@violet.berkeley.edu

dave@rosesun.Rosemount.COM (Dave Marquardt) (10/15/87)

In article <1822@celtics.UUCP> roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>Does anyone know of a product providing an Ethernet-to-Hyperchannel
>gateway?  I'm looking for a "black box" to sit on an ethernet and
>pass TCP-IP and its friends in both directions.

We just met with a Network Systems Corp. salesman this week, and NSC themselves
now have Hyperchannel-Ethernet bridges.  Here's a short description of some
products:

	EN601:	Bridges Ethernets over HYPERchannel-10(r) (10 Mbps media)

	EN602:	Bridges Ethernets over HYPERchannel(r) telecommunication links
		(up to 2 Mbps)

	EN603:	Bridges Ethernets over HYPERchannel-50(r) (50 Mbps)

	EN641:	The IP Router EN641 from Network Systems(r) provides a
		gateway between Ethernet networks and HYPERchannel(r)
		networks.  This gateway creates an internet, or backbone,
		among local workstation networks and high-performance
		mainframes attached to HYPERchannel(r).

HYPERchannel is a registered trademark of Network Systems Corporation.

	Dave

chris@gargoyle.UChicago.EDU (Chris Johnston) (10/16/87)

In article <1822@celtics.UUCP> roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>Does anyone know of a product providing an Ethernet-to-Hyperchannel
>gateway?  I'm looking for a "black box" to sit on an ethernet and
>pass TCP-IP and its friends in both directions.

Yesterday I was reading the Oct 1 Electronics.  (I'm way behind on my
reading.)  It had an article about a new ethernet hyperchannel router
from Network Systems.  Fully configured ($50K) it will handle 8
ethernets and 2 hyperchannels.  They claim it will handle 10,000
packets per second.  The EN641 is an IP router.  The EN60X is a
bridge.

The same issue of Electronics says AMD has announced a 200 Mbit/sec
FDDI chip set.

cj

ddk@beta.UUCP (David D Kaas) (10/17/87)

	Network Systems Corp. has products that will connect Ethernet
to Hyperchannel.  EN60x Bridge for Ethernet to Ethernet over a Hyperchannel
link.  IP router En641 as an Ethernet to Hyperchannel gateway.  They support
tcp/ip for some hosts (vm, mvs, vms...)
I think these have been released in just the last few weeks.  They are supposed
to be up and working?

-- 
Dave Kaas - D.O.E. Richland, Wa.
	e41126%rlvax3.xnet@lanl.gov

ras@rayssdb.RAY.COM (Ralph A. Shaw) (10/19/87)

We at Raytheon have had some experience with the Hyperchannel
products, in particular the BC601, or EN601 as it is now known.
While I do not speak for the larger group of sites within the company,
I'll try and bring up some of the problems we think we have run into
with the EN601 product.  This is merely using the Hyperchannel bus
as a carrier, and allowing ethernets to talk to each other, and is not
performing any type of gateway/protocol translation facility between
the TCP, DECNet, XNS or other protocol machines and the NETEX/BFX
machines.

We have a number of different locations scattered throughout Mass
and this site in RI that are interconnected via both A-Hyperchannel
and B-Hyperchannel equipment over T1 lines.  Some of the locations
are tied together with Bridge GS3/M's, some with Vitalink Translan's,
some with the AT&T ISN "EBIM" adapters, and 5 locations with the
NSC EN601's, all presumably as part of an evaluation and/or production
installation, both of which add up to sites in at least 10 towns on
an extended ethernet; (total net population: 300+, 70% DECNet)

To make a long story short, many of the problems we have had have
been related to having such a widely spread out extended LAN.  One
of the failings of the EN601 is the lack of visibility into what is
going on, in the way of maintenance and diagnostic aids as an ethernet
bridge, compared to the Bridge/Vitalink style of products.  Another
problems may result in an inconsistency of loop detection algorithms
between the different vendors' bridges (while Bridge/Vitalink are
supposed to cooperate).  Yet Another situation (which is still unclear 
as to it's impact) is the fact that at least multicast packets are
batched up into a 4K buffer, and then VC-transferred to each other
EN601 in sequence, imposing quite a delay when the BFX traffic is
going on (making for very choppy telnet sessions).

Anyway, the 601's are still here, and NSC is supposedly working on the
problems we have with them, and they have improved them dramatically
in the time since we first got them in (we were an early Beta-test),
but I think that no matter what they do, the BC601 will always be
compromised by the fact it has to time-slice over the HyperChannel.
-- 
Ralph Shaw, 		
Raytheon Co.,		Submarine Signal Division
Portsmouth, RI		02871
ras@rayssd.RAY.COM  or  ihnp4!rayssd!ras